The other Wagner thread

[jesse]

Walter Mitty suddenly goes global?

[Chris]

Gary,

I have some questions around Wagner and his material. Some of his claims have been strongly challenged. I also have some queries about the content of the material he presents.

Would you be the man to answer those?

Should make for an interesting discussion.

cheers
Chris

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aaa

[Nick Hughes]

Number 1...

It's considered rude and poor etiquette to come onto a forum where you don't contribute on a regular basis and advertise your stuff.

No different than me gate crashing a party and handing out a bunch of business cards.

Number 2.

None of his stuff has been proven to be correct. In fact, in the open letters to him he refuses to reply with any proof. He's a fraud, plain and simple.

Regards

Nick

PS: Please don't reply with the jealous other martial artist line...it won't work here. There are tons of authentic, real deal martial artists out there whose stuff I promote and mention on a regular basis...Wagner isn't one, because he is not the real deal.

[gone]

thanks for your information. but you clearly have read the wrong sites about jim, he is genuine and its been proven. traditional martial artists out there do slate reality based as its not there thing. but each to there own at th end of the day. try jims courses, your be really surprised.

[David Turton]

I have several members of my association who HAVE tried Jim's courses and been very disappointed with the content

I havent personally been on one so my information is indeed 'second hand'

I do apologise but have to say, I really hope he doesnt become 'big' in the UK

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[Nick Hughes]

Where has it been proven? And why didn't you answer the bit about sliding in here to promote Wagner without ever contributing anything to the forum?

Here's the allegations about Wagner from a mate's site. I happen to know for a fact about the SWAT gig at Costa Mesa because I have trained with them, one of their top instructors and many of their officers.

As for your allegations that traditional martial artists don't like him...that's possibly true but Hock Hockheim can't stand him, I can't stand him, and Kelly McCann can't stand him and none of us teach traditional martial arts.

Despite his early ads, lectures and claims, Wagner did only 8 months in the Army as a
radio operator. He begged a congressman to get him out. He told people early on, (we
have their names, that he was an Army Sergeant. Many years later he joined the
California Militia and actually became a SGT. He likes to confuse people about
this timing.

* Wagner was forced out of the Costa Mesa Police. CMPD officers say he wormed
himself into a volunteer, unpaid, reserve position first, and then into a deal with then
Chief Snowden, then he left without public disgrace.

* Wagner worked for and with a group of vets in the 1990s called HSS International, who
actually got the training gigs that he claims he alone got. These courses were actually
taught by these vets. He attended or helped out. He deceives customers by using
these HSS group photos for all his advertising of HIS teaching the “world’s elite.”
Wagner was fired from HSS for a series of criminal thefts and scams. A judge in a California
court confirmed this.

* Wagner was a smaller town jailer, then cop, then DARE officer and shopping mall cop
when he worked with and met the military and police vets of HSS International. At one
time HSS employed 100 instructors. Wagner was eventually fired from HSS for double-
billing expenses and stealing a variety of things (to include the HSS name while keeping
the money). In his advertising, Wagner uses all these HSS acquired gigs AS HIS
ALONE! Wagner uses the HSS photos all over his webpage, manipulating them as
though he alone taught these groups. This misinformation and deception constitutes
the basis of his ad campaign. Think about this - NONE of these special, military or
police groups would hire a small town jailer, DARE officer and MALL cop to teach them.
HSS got those gigs. They fired Wagner for theft. A California judge agreed with HSS in
2003.

* Wagner was never on any SWAT team as an "front-line" operator, just as office,
support help in Costa Mesa police - slickly called a SWAT “Command Post.” Wagner
failed the SWAT PT test. He admitted this for a while, then changed that story and
suddenly in April, 2010, Jim Wagner claimed he passed another test and was
a full-fledged SWAT team member. I now have documents from Costa Mesa P.D.
that declare he was not, as well as a memo from HIM where he complained about his
surprise/sudden firing from this support job and how complained about being replaced
by a totally untrained, unarmed park ranger. Wagner has never attended the
California State Peace Officer Standards and Training SWAT school, a requirement
for a SWAT operator. Attorney Sam Browning has signed statements about this and
I have been told by numerous prior SWAT officers about this. I have conversed with
CMPD SWAT and Wagner was called by them a "house mouse" and NOT on the SWAT team.

* Wagner was forced to leave the Orange County SO unpaid, volunteer reserves for a
series of indiscretions, mistakes and false claims about being the Sheriff's bodyguard,
etc, Then there were even more problems...

* Wagner did about 8 months as an Air Marshal and that includes his schooling! He was
forced to leave over a forgery investigation, causing a hurry-up resignation letter after
8 months employment in a deal. He'd committed a crime. (I have these documents -
to include a Congressman Christopher Cox letter) Wagner has already lied about
this publicly, numerous times.

* From these air marshal flights that he first called uneventful, he later advertised them
as a mysterious “140 counter-terrorism missions.” Wagner used this short, "rookie"
background through Black Belt Magazine ads to be called a "post, 9-11 counter
terrorism, government expert." He was actually forced out after 8 months.

* Wagner uses the “I resigned” cover story to conceal his lifelong professional mistakes
at Costa Mesa, Orange County and the Federal Air Marshals. All these agencies were
used to con customers into thinking he was a seasoned, experienced, unblemished vet
and expert. He just "resigned" form his Black Belt magazine column.

* Wagner is currently a California state reservist, one of the few branches that will
NEVER go to war (odd choice for a super hero of the world's tactical elite!). But, he
was quick to play dress up in the uniform and get on the cover of Black Belt Magazine
in his "dramatic combat uniform"...and "the black beret" (his actual public words on
the web.) He got into trouble for doing this.

* Probably Wagner's biggest and most self-revealing lie is when he claimed that US
President George Bush summoned him to is Oval Office to thank him for his war effort.


That last one is a perfect example of how Wagner cons people. He was in a prayer group when Pres Bush showed up. Everyone in the prayer group got a photo with the President. Wagner uses his to claim he was summonsed to the Oval Office. I checked with a mate in the secret service...a complete and utter lie.

Don't waste your money folks...Wagner is a con man through and through.

Nick

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[Jagunco]

Still not said why you came here and dumped an advert without any other input mate. Been asked twice now

[David Turton]

I believe Nick ... Full stop

I have several members of my ASMAA-SDF organisation who have been on Wagner seminars and were very disappointed
of course that could be argued that this is just second hand information.. true to a degree, but from valued members of my association.

Nick I commmend you for your posts mate, my respect for you is high anyway, now higher

and Yep he STILL didnt answer why he came on here

[Ade]

I believe Nick ... Full stop

Likewise.

Nick can always back up everything he claims or alleges with evidence and i trust the guy,so his word is good enough for me.

[Nick Hughes]

You keep saying it was proven....where is your proof?

I can come on here and claim the world is flat and keep saying it's been proven but it doesn't make it so.

The photo with the President was done as part of prayer group...everyone there got a pic with the President. Wagner, being the conman, charlatan and showman that he is, insulted real soldiers, by exploiting the pic ans claiming he was invited by his commander in chief to a meeting.

This is how people like he operate. Wagner was in the military for all of 8 months as a radio operator so at that point the President would have been his Commander in Chief...when you get an invite as part of a PRAYER GROUP people like him then twist it to imply the invite was to him and him alone for some reason pertaining to his service. Not so.

He claims he did a bunch of anti-terror missions. He was an air marshal (before being fired for lying on his application)...again, the air marshal program was created to deal with terrorism but sitting on a plane swanning around the country is hardly any serious player's definition of an anti-terror mission. What SEAL Team 6 did in going after UBL was an anti-terror mission. This is again how people like Wagner twist and distort things to inflate their own egos.

No different than guys who have a military guy in their karate class who now claim to teach the military.

He's a liar, plain and simple, and what he does insults real soldiers and law enforcement personnel every day he's out there doing it.

Do your own research.

Nick

PS: The sad part of this is that even when confronted with proof that their guru is a lying sack of shite the followers dig their heels in even harder because to do otherwise would be admitting they're gullible enough to be duped by someone. Can't be having that now can we, so they follow their guy even more devoutly. It happens with cults where leaders have claimed god's told them the world is over. When the world doesn't end on the designated day some wake up and smell the coffee...others, usually the weaker ones, blindly follow on waiting for the next proclamation, and the next, and the next, and the next.

[gone]

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[Jagunco]

... I think he's gone

[Chris]

damn, and I never got the chance to play!

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[Ade]

Gary...Why don't YOU stop this from merely going around in circles by providing us with irrefutable proof that Wagner is all he claims to be? Show us evidence,show us this award for instance (from an independent source,obviously)

Are you able to do this? So far you have seemed at a loss to put up a decent reply to any of the allegations against Wagner.

[gone]

and you have still not supplied the HARD evidence you claim to have. Just repeated claims from other sources. provide me your evidence and i will follow suit.

[Ade]

and you have still not supplied the HARD evidence you claim to have. Just repeated claims from other sources. provide me your evidence and i will follow suit.

I have not claimed to have any evidence of any sort,in fact my previous post was my first in this thread,so i do not believe i have repeated any claims....but as you have chosen to post on Self Protection Dot Com(which is owned by myself and Peter)the onus is firmly upon you to provide proof worthy enough to sway our opinion.The members on this site have nothing to prove whereas you,on the other hand,do.

So for the sake of your own crediblity,stop with the veiled hints of proof and lay it out for us.

[gone]

\\\

[Ade]

I wasn't asking Wagner,i was asking you.

[Chris]

I do hope that Wagner at least instills his students with more intestinal fortitude than his reps seem to possess!

[Mr Nobody]

good bye from me

Yay! He's gone!!

But can we prove it??

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