Pick Axa Handle fighting techniques

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Its a great weapon, and my favourite large impact weapon.. there is indeed an 'art' to it..

You can use it one or two handed, swings, 'jabs' hacks, locks and controls etc
far superior to the baseball bat..

I do run sessions teaching it, ask Chris (Mod) about the weapon.. he loves it as well after I introduced him to it

As do I... my favorite "shite hits the fan" impact weapon.

After reading the review on Mr Turton's class on this weapon i "saw the light".
Before that i always thought using it two-handed(baseball bat style,by the way,these are are a bit akward to use,especially in close quarter) but then you talked about one handed,locks,even face bars i was converted.
You said it saved your life while working the doors and having multiples attacking with weapons,do you think it made such a difference with other weapons you could have used?

What do you think of the ASP, Mr Turton?

Not much.. its main good point is the noise it makes when it 'snaps' open, thats a great psychological effect.

The trouble with any weapon that is in a sheath/hoster whatever is unless you already know in advance that trouble is breqing, you then have to draw it bloody quickly.
The police will draw theirs often as they are running towards trouble already on the go.

Plus their uniform allows overt weaponry, where-as we 'civvies' are better with covert weapons or expedient weapons..

the ASP also isnt alot of good against heavy clothing and padding, with the pick axe handle it doesnt make any difference.


Always Ready! .. yes I suppose you can say that it did save my life once or twice, but I suppose also that in theory you can say that about ANT self-defence move.. after all, whenevre one human is doing damage via deliberate violence on another, then there is always a potential for death.

But the two main ones that stick in my mind were both odd odds against me in numbers and in weaponry.. the Pikeys who came tumbling out a couple of transit vans with knives and axes certainly werent there to buy me and my fellow doorman a drink
they were up for it, well excited, so we attacked THEM.. whooping like Cochise and swing the pickaxe handles,
anything within sight and range was hit.. full stop

not being clever or anything, but it takes either a very brave and determined or very stupid person to stand there whilst some crazy is screaming at you and swinging a pickaxe handle whilst charging straight for you,,

in military parlance.. they broke ranks and retreated..

I dont feel I would have been as ready to charge if I was holding anything else other than my trusty 'Equalizer'

I have heard mention of the axe handle in a couple of different places and you've got my curiousity. Do you have or know of some videos that I might be able to watch or purchase to see some techniques and or uses other than just bashing someone. Also are we talking about a full size axe handle? I mean it seems out of place... If your working a door and they allow that I can see it's purpose, but you can't really walk around with one. I'm just trying to understand a bit more on this.

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I would question the wisdom of asking someone to throw you a pickaxe handle in the middle of an incident. The 'legal weapon' comment is a bit odd too. British law has a number of things to say about people carrying weapons around. Mostly they boil down to:

You can't.

I can't bring myself to type out another essay on law, but suffice to say that unless you're in possession of the Queen's Warrant or acting under the relevant Act of Parliament as a member of the armed forces then you are not permitted to bear arms or carry a weapon. Or carry any object for the purpose of using it as a weapon.

So no, it's not a 'legal weapon'

Thanks for the answers Dave. I already purchased 3 pick axe handles so I just want to say to Roadkill that I keep one in my car on the passenger seat, one by my front door and one at the side of my bed.

Is there any likelyhood of you breaking three pick-axe handles on the same day? Do you work in an industry where you are using pick-axes on a daily basis and regularly breaking the handles? If the answer is "no" I would seriously consider selling them as you have no good reason for owning them, and if used for a wrong purpose, you will most likley face a custodial sentence.

Unless you have serious problems with the mob there is little need to be tooled up like this.

(Very negative things deleted).

If you use a pickaxe handle as a weapon, you may have to explain why you were carrying it. Look up the relevant law on weapons. Basically, you have the right to arm yourself in the face of an imminent need but that does not mean you can carry weaponry about just in case.

Always Ready is a troll.You don't have to go asking questions on a forum about how to use a pick-axe handle if you have fought armed gangs in Manchester

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OK a few mixed answers to some questions and points.

There are no videos/DVD's and I wont make them, simply because I dont want some 15 year old scrotes learning even more mayhem methods than they already can buy.. so its on private sessions only.

In the Lamplighter and the Homestead (the two places I used them), there were some great places out of sight to keep them. well within reach

I kept one in my car and I have one near my front door..

for years (well months) in the boot of my car, I kept a broken pickaxe handle about 8 inches of it still attached to the head, alongside the 'new' handle ("I was just taking it home to fix it Officer")

The ones I have used most seriously were when on the doors.. I quit the doors in 1979, and left the ones I had with the landlords.
I still have two but one is well hidden the other less so.

I have only used them as threats in 20 years .. admittedly the threats were meant and the manner and gestures I used with the threats were 'aggressive' to say the least.. but no contact was made.


The legality of weapons and the functions of weapons are two separate topics....
The original post/thread being why I like them and why I use/d them.. not any legalities..

Very very few (if any) Mancs (Mancunians) on the doors will NOT Have broken the Laws of the land regarding violence ... me included..

breaking Laws for fun is one thing breaking Laws by breaking heads to stay alive is another...

I couldnt ever really say how many 'fights' (not scuffles etc) I have had .. not many really.. but I CAN say with hand on heart.. I NEVER instgated any of them.. so for me I was 'defending' (whther just morally or both morally and legal is open to debate)... but I didnt feel I ever started them

when we threw 3 PIkeys for drunkeness etc out of the Homestead, it was them who decided to come back 2 hours later in 2 transit vans with some reinforcements.. not me

I felt at the time I had little choice quite genuinely between doing something positive or maybe dying.. No Contest

when the S**T hits the fan and you are facing potential sever injury or even death, then frankly legalities rarely cross your mind

I am afraid that my question got skewed via some recent posts. I am earnestly curious about the axe handle and I am way beyond 15

Plus now I have some new questions.. (Don't laugh at me) Is it safe to assume that a "Lamplighter" is a bar or similar establishment?

I understand why an axe handle based on its strength and hardness, but it is also a bit heavy, cumbersome and I would assume a bit slower as far as recovery after a swing. Please feel free to answer PM if you feel it is inappropriate here.

Hi Roadkill..

I certainly wasnt refering to anyone on HERE when I mentioned the 15 year old thing.. I was meaning in general..

I have had youngsters phone me up asking me to teach them 'killing techniques' and did I have videos on knifing people etc..

my post was to (try) and say that I have been asked several times in the past to do a DVD/video on the pickaxe handle, but the youth in the UK are bad enough without buying DVD's on other methods, so I just teach the Pick Axe handle on courses to (more or less) sensible martial artists.

Yes the Lamplighter etc are Clubs .. the nightclub scene in the UK can be a pretty violent arena to work in.

On to the other questions (which are very sensible ones)..

The pickaxe handle is not used like a baseball bat in most of its applications ... most people when they first use a pick axe handle do just that.. they think its just another type of baseball bat.
However there are a few differences..

1. the recovery after a swing is 'controlled/stopped' in two ways... First by a way of releasing then re-gripping the handle so that the swing energy is nullified ... secondly, if you have hit a 200lbs man in the boby, it doesnt swing that far anyway.
2. when you use the handle you learn to 'flip' strike, by various ways of gripping it, and can strike and recover very fast very close in.
3. the handle is controlled by various actions of one and two hands along its length.
4. most heavy weapons, like the baseball bat or golf club etc, only have an obvious holding end and hitting end.. the pickaxe handle doesnt.. although the 'blade' part is where the pick axe head goes, because there isnt a head, then the actions become so different without the head, the handle becomes very 'live' and can be held so that ANY part (including both 'ends') becomes the hitting parts
5. it can be held in two hands so that a double forward strike across the handle is used, used like a bayonet to 'stab', etc etc.. many grips making many different types of strike
6 finally it is used for holds, chokes etc.. a face bar with the pickaxe handle has a pain all of its own.

thanks for the questions.

Yup, all very true. My legal comments were directed at the 'yay! legal weapons! killsmashhurt! Me big warrior man! guy.

I'm well aware of the reality of the matter.


Though beside my bed I have a fire extinguisher rather than a pickaxe handle. I'm more concerned about fire than intruders. It's a quite little one, but heavy.

Anything you find between the lines of that statement is your business!

On two occasions I have trained with Dave and been genuinely afraid.

Once was while training the grovit... I was sincerely afraid I would break someone's neck.

The second time was when I felt the power inherent in a properly handled pick-axe handle. That made my blood run cold because I was absolutely 100% certain that used in the "correct" way someone was being ended. Not hurt or even damaged for life but ended.

I can only equate it to the kind of care you need to take when shooting a firearm... the pick-axe potential for harm at close quarters is that great. All it would take is one mad second... one muppet who thinks its a game and it's lights out.

(not that anyone here falls into that category of muppet but you know what I mean.)

At this DVD you can see the pick axe handle (mostly the diferent defenses against it) and realise how scary is.

http://www.comparestyles.com/

The psicological factor is important too.You see a guy holding one and moving forwards you like in the DVD and you crap yourself
Mr Turton,any chance you come to sunny Spain for a seminar?

Dave,

Ok, I have a bit more of an understanding. For some strange reason all I could picture in my mind was a walking tall sort of use vs. lets say some cane or bow type applications. Plus as I was reading your response I could see the potential uses of the unique shape of an axe handle in regards to striking, controlling and or pain compliance.

Fortunately for me my 45 by the bedside is a wonderful tool and I no longer work in violent places. Although I miss it at times, bizarre isn’t it. As far as the car, there is wisdom in your post as far as the broken axe with the new one that people should pay attention to, it will keep you out of potential trouble.

I wish I could visit the UK… I don’t have anyone in my area that teaches or even trains in these type areas. I am the only one that seems to train in the areas of what many here would consider over the top.

I feel the theory behind the use of a pick-axe hanlde for fighting boils down to the old maxim of "its not what you've got, its how you use it". Each weapon may be more suitable to a given task ie the asp or night stick is more suitable for concealment than the conspicuous pick-axe handle and therefore may negate the chance of being picked up by the Police in the first place. But if you have a handy Bar or "Door" to store your trusty pick-axe handle behind it is an ideal weapon against all manner of attackers including multiple attacks by armed "Pikeys" as Dave so rightly explained and this is my point -

Dave obviously knows how to handle this weapon, but in an untrained hand it can be worse than useless. I have seen people who would pose a greater risk to themselves than to any assailent if armed with a pistol!

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I think it depends who the "untrained hand" is fighting. I have seen all too often people become overconfident when armed with a similar weapon - take on the wrong man and get seriously injured. They would have been better off running in the opposite direction. Also, how many ND's have resulted in accidental deaths and injuries from gun shot wounds?

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