open hand

I trained for a while with a very good friend of mine (the late Bill Rankin 10th Dan Ju-Juitsu)who always said that he never made a fist,as open hand gave him more options. Bill's techniques were wonderful to watch,and in all fairness non involved a closed fist.However I guess it comes down to what you feel more comfortable with.

A closed fist tends to stay closed when you're full of adrenaline, and you can't do much grabbing with one.

I like closed fists for hammerfists and body shots, but elsewise open hands are generally a better option. Especially if you have little girly hands like I do; hitting big manly skulls is a bit risky for all those small bones...

Wow not often you hear of Bill Rankin on the net.

Open hands are good, but instinct usually make you punch IME

always preferred closed but I train in open as well. Open is a lot easier on those life like pads you get

it's good if you can get into the habit of using a fist where necessary/appropriate. I like open hand stuff for simple things like a good ol' fashioned slap and also for blocking but have always liked the standard issue punch too

we make a fist because we 'grasp'.. however its easy to damage the knuckles when punching hard head..
training will 'overcome' (slightly) the desire to clench, and then open hands are king

I prefer open hands, less chance of injury and hits just as hard, besides it looks bad
on CCTV if your punching someone, even if it's you being attacked and your 'defending'

knuckles tend to leave impact marks as well, broken nose, teeth, cheekbone etc, as well as
cut knuckles to yourself. and the evidence can mount up.

it's one of the points I make when I teach, these days you can be sued for sod all, so by using open
handed responses it helps to try and negate all this.

Also the power slap done properly could fell a rhino, or at least rhino from gladiators

just my two penneth of course.

I also prefer open hand and feel that my power slap from the fence could indeed fell a rhino, I'm not complacent though and still practice the fist, and every other tool on my body, but for the pre-emptive the slap is hard to beat, imo !

GOVINDA wrote:I also prefer open hand and feel that my power slap from the fence could indeed fell a rhino, I'm not complacent though and still practice the fist, and every other tool on my body, but for the pre-emptive the slap is hard to beat, imo !

yep, still train fists as well, very good on softer targets like the solar plexus etc

combatnige wrote:

GOVINDA wrote:I also prefer open hand and feel that my power slap from the fence could indeed fell a rhino, I'm not complacent though and still practice the fist, and every other tool on my body, but for the pre-emptive the slap is hard to beat, imo !

yep, still train fists as well, very good on softer targets like the solar plexus etc

Very true Nige, plus you can always punch him when he is down






Ps I don't advocate violence and no animals were harmed in writing this post !

Closed fist are what i prefer due to my boxing background. I haven't used open hands but there is no doubt about there potency.

I think thats true for a lot of us Mr T, open hands may be a better option but as the old saying goes "you fight like you train" and a lot of grew up boxing so when the time comes punches are what happens.

In a real situation its always best to go with what feels best to you,if puches are your forte .. fine
but what sensible training should give you are more valid options.

i've two formerly smashed knuckles that go to jelly when using closed fist. Smart move for me is open hand. got to give credit though, easy for closed fist to be automatic default.

Got a kickboxing background myself so the default setting is closed fists.

However I've been trying to reprogram the old brain box setting the fence against a heavy bag and delivering the power slap. Gets that bag swinging.

I'll probably need to rep it out 10,000 times to override my closed fist jabs, crosses, and hooks.

Normally I consider it a bit of a loss I never had any boxing training but in this I'll consider myself fortunate haha

Now seeing as I've never used them outside of training take my opinion with a grain of salt but I love open hand chin jab/eye gouge and elbows. No idea how it's going to work for me in the real world though haha hope I never have to find out.

One boxer I know, who has broken his hands numerous times in street fights, always pre empts with the open hand but when the fight is on its closed fists all the way.

Andrew

PS Little guy 5'7 maybe 140lbs, still hell on wheels

One can practice the "Pat N Punch" drill

RichardZ wrote:One can practice the "Pat N Punch" drill

Could you explain the Pat N Punch drill a bit more Richard?

I've got an idea of what I think it means, maybe something I'm familiar with but known by a different name, not quite sure. Sounds interesting though.

Thanks, Peter

The problem practicing with the hands open (or closed fist) is that it creates a habit of keeing them this way.

In other words, if or when it should arise, that the opposite open hand to close fist/or closed fist to open hand, there maybe a difficulty or set reflex in the change up

cartmelpete, I am equally interested about your thought of how the drill is performed

I come from a predominately boxing background so originally my first choice years ago would have been a closed fist.
I have for quite a few years now though practiced both punches and open hand slaps, palms on the heavy bag bare handed, no gloves.

What I thought or imagined the Pat 'n Punch drill might be was, from a face off /Fence type position maybe push your opponent with, for example the left hand and with the same hand launch a left handed punch slap such as a left hook to the head.
Or maybe, for example pat, push his right elbow with your right hand to either give him a small sensory shock/distraction or if done harder a small adrenaline dump and also to maybe put him of balance and even spin him a bit and then immediately, with the same right hand hit him with a right hook to the jaw.
Not that I've done these in any formal structured drill but just played around with them in a general way.

That was interesting

Yes. I have something a tad different.

It is actually a two-phase

Phase one is a fast repetition/coordination drill

I start off with a face-off palm out (fence)

The hands start off like a palm strike but quickly closes on impact.

Alternating the hands striking a bag (not striking at air)

It almost looks like a weird grabbing action but the hands close to fists upon impact.

The grabbing action aids in grabbing just in case.

Then after a series of this, the hands do not close but hit as palm strikes

Then I alternate/opposite the whole thing by starting off with closed fists opening to palm strikes



Phase two, is a grabbing and punching drill

The next phase is with two batons.

You can either have a partner hold, (only on ends-allowing exposed end for grab-strike)

I have the batons suspended so that I can let go and then grab-strike them. It takes practice to be able to re-gain, re-grab the batons which move a little if I should release them just to add more effort for reset.

You again start off with a open-palm (fence)

You strike in the direction of the targeted baton and moment of impact, you grab the baton.

While holding onto the baton, you slightly turn your fist, striking into a bag nearly directly behind. (You are still holding onto the baton)

This action simulates grabbing a opponent with one hand and striking with the other

Note: The batons are only about 3.5 times wider than your fist.
This helps in accuracy for grabbing.

Thanks for the explanation Richard, interesting stuff.

Must hasten to add that the things I mentioned are not what would be my first choice. Prefer to stick to even simpler direct stuff, prefer being the operative word.




(of course after having exhausted all other options, like threatening to bring BN down to deal to them)

Pat and punch, sounds like Pak and Punch from Wing Chun, is it similar Richard ?

cartmelpete wrote: Thanks for the explanation Richard, interesting stuff.

Must hasten to add that the things I mentioned are not what would be my first choice. Prefer to stick to even simpler direct stuff, prefer being the operative word.




(of course after having exhausted all other options, like threatening to bring BN down to deal to them)

I agree that some simpler and direct are more "comfortable".

I tend to like other routines in order to change up.

This "change up" allows me to be more versatile if a situation should arise that may be different to one simple-direct routine from previous.