MAKIWARA/HAND CONDITIONING

Afternoon Nick,
In your forum there were some past mentions of knuckle conditioning and makiwara striking.

You may be interested to know that in the latest edition of Australian BUJUTSU magazine there is an excellent article on the subject by a Bob Wright from the Black Dragon Kempo System.

Its light reading but very informative, as someome just starting into knuckle conditioning I found it most helpful.

Kind regards.

Dragon,

Thanks mate,...any chance of a link?

Nick

Nick,
BUJUTSU magazine is mentioned here and there, but after many attempts couldn't find an actual website.
I read the article by Bob again this afternoon and always have a laugh when he talks about meeting the late Ed Parker in Australia at a Kenpo tournament and wonders how he can steal one of Elvis' rings off Parker's finger and make his escape
You mention about Billy Manne using Goanna Oil after hitting the makiwara and doing push ups. I must look into that! Stay safe.

Just to add a little bit to this...my hand conditioning came about mainly from pushups on the knuckles...makiwara is ok but I was never a huge advocate of it.

Nick

Hi Dragon,
Very glad you found that article by me informative, as the magazine is only fairly new I haven't had any actual feedback from the Editor or readers as yet.
Great to hear you had a bit of a giggle about my story regarding Elvis' rings that Ed Parker was wearing, too many martial art stories tend to be far too serious and with some authors you almost need an English/Japanese dictionary just to get through the article!
All the best (and regards to you as well Nick).
Bob

Nick,

I was warned about doing knuckle push ups as leading to athritis. I used to do them on the concrete so maybe that's not as good as wood??

What have you heard or what is your opinion on this?

Thanks.

Bob,

Greetings mate...nice to meet you as well.

Mr Nobody...I doubt the veracity of the arthritis from knuckle pushups mate. Punching things? Yes. Resting on the knuckles while you do pushups (on wood or concrete)? Nope. Not in my opinion.

My (admittedly limited) understanding is that arthritis is heriditary, due to broken bones, abuse of, or lack of use of various joints.

Nick

Cool, thanks Nick. Maybe I should get back into them again then.

Mr Nobody wrote:Nick,

I was warned about doing knuckle push ups as leading to athritis. I used to do them on the concrete so maybe that's not as good as wood??

What have you heard or what is your opinion on this?

Thanks.

As with Nick I doubt you could get arthritis from pushups, but there is always a chance of getting it from striking solid objects and from breaking tiles, wood, etc. with the knuckles (although you'd have to be doing this on a regular basis).
Read somewhere that Mas Oyama had many problems in later life as a result of this.
I still do a heavy makiwara workout, but that's the path I chose and never push it onto others. I give advice and warn about possible medical implications as well.

Nick Hughes wrote:My (admittedly limited) understanding is that arthritis is heriditary, due to broken bones, abuse of, or lack of use of various joints.

Nick

I have osteoarthritis in my lower back due to too many years of playing silly rough games with way too much heavy contact. When I was shown the x-rays it was explained to me that most people develop bone spurs to some extent as they age but mine was significantly accelerated by the amount of trauma put on my spine. (and that the discs themselves were thinner too - so stick to martial arts!) So, I would imagine it's possible to damage joints like the knuckles from giving them unnatural use like pushups. There may be purely hereditary types of arthritis, but apparently this type is common if you 'abuse' yourself!

Dave,

Big difference between heavy contact and pushups on the knuckles. Punching inanimate objects would amount to abuse and heavy contact...me resting a portion of my bodyweight on my knuckles in a pushup position hardly qualifies n'est ce pas?

Nick

Bob Wright wrote:
Read somewhere that Mas Oyama had many problems in later life as a result of this.

Mas Oyama's problems were nothing to do with the makiwara and more to do with some of the stunts he used to do, like psychce guys out before a match by letting them hit his fist with a small sledge hammer then break a brick, THEN fight them.

I asked him once about the damage to his hand (he ws about 68 at the time). He said that from time to time he wakes up in the night from nerve pain running from his hands up his forearm. He would massage it until it settled down. But in terms of arthritis, no, absolutely not. His hands were soft, dexterous to the end and his writing and calligraphy unaffected.

I would say push ups on the flat of your hands would be worse in the long run than on your knuckles because of the pressure on the bent wrist. Haven't really researched this though, just my own experience.

Makiwara training has nothing to do with calloused knuckles and everything to do with strengthening bone and tissue. There are right and wrong ways.

Cam Quinn

Thanks for that Cam.

My info re: Oyama's injuries was a result of an interview with Jack Sandelescu which I read many years ago.

I think he mentioned problems as a result of makiwara training and breaking.

Bob