Who has actually done these techniches for real?

Paul you must hang around in extremely humble circles. Plenty of military, ex and serving, will gob off endlessly with the slightest provocation.

PaulGappyNorris wrote:Is there anywhere on the web that has accounts of 'real' military CQC and the 'techniques' that have been used in an operational environment, with 'real' people giving their account of what they used?

I don't mean the plethora of 'Bob I'm in the SAS' types of rubbish, but genuine (if such a thing exists) accounts of actual hand-to-hand, and fight for your life stuff....

This relates to my original question.

People state as scientific fact that the collar bone breaks 'easily' (whatever that means) but few if anyone has actually done it.

And I think there is far more force applied falling off a horse onto your arm, than striking said collar bone on a resisting opponent in a mellay.

People state as scientific fact that the collar bone breaks 'easily' (whatever that means) but few if anyone has actually done it.

Probably due to most people not being daft enough to strike the collar bone when the head is also available as a target.I think the bone breaks in TLC,or whatever it is called,are more of a gimmick than anything else.

Brian S wrote:I asked the same of the old World War 2 Combatives crowd a few years ago.

They traded on their "proven in batle" claims... but none at all were forthcoming, and asking the question meant I was making trouble.

The nearest they got was "It must have worked or no one would have survived." That's what I call nonsense.

The WW2 people often talk of SOE agents using these techniques but never seem able to produce any evidence.Both Odette Sansom and Violet Szabo were trained in these techniques but it was in a superfical way and not the most important aspect of their training.Violet Szabo put up a good fight against the Germans until she ran out of ammunition but didn't resort to using chin jabs when they closed in on her.Like anyone else in her position she was restrained and taken into custody.Odette Sansom survived because she had the abilty to think clearly when under extreme pressure.She had the tenacity never to give up despite being in a concentration camp,tortured, and living under the constant threat of death.Again she didn't chin jab her way out of the concentration camp but just dug deep until she was rescued by the Allied forces.You can learn a lot from these people but its more about tenacity and the will to survive than fancy techniques.

When Robert Nairac was lifted by IRA in 70s in middle of a pub car park it was said he put up a hell of a fight but i do not put that down to any so called 'military unarmed combat training'more to fact he knew the outcome if he was captured and he was not a bad boxer in his uni days.
I agree with Mick in that any hand to hand training done in military always comes from a civilian basis a fight in the barracks is no different to a punch up outside your local.If for some strange reason you end up in a hand to hand brawl on operations the techniques used are no different from what anyone else will use.
As for the techniques mentioned biting has always proved useful and i have seen an accidental throat strike stop a boxing contest few years back as the fighter started coughing and choking.

That's the gag reflex.

I bet he survived though.....

Ha ha yeah he survived.

SMUDGEPARA wrote:When Robert Nairac was lifted by IRA in 70s in middle of a pub car park it was said he put up a hell of a fight but i do not put that down to any so called 'military unarmed combat training'more to fact he knew the outcome if he was captured and he was not a bad boxer in his uni days.
I agree with Mick in that any hand to hand training done in military always comes from a civilian basis a fight in the barracks is no different to a punch up outside your local.If for some strange reason you end up in a hand to hand brawl on operations the techniques used are no different from what anyone else will use.
As for the techniques mentioned biting has always proved useful and i have seen an accidental throat strike stop a boxing contest few years back as the fighter started coughing and choking.

During my time in the army I was involved in, witnessed and had to break up numerous barrack room brawls and biff-ups at the Boozer etc. We didn't have the Military Self Defence program the ADF teaches nowadays, just some unarmed combat taught by PTI's now and then and all of that was the same as the WW2 era material. There were courses in hand to hand stuff avialable but these were restricted to Special Action Forces (now known as Special Forces) and were extremely difficult to get on. The reasons given were that the Army didn't want lethally trained soldiers going off on a pay night on a civvy (this was just after Vietnam and the military were not as popular then as now) and killing him. Also the Army H2H was designed to quickly kill the enemy, not just injure to escape or to restrain and control so it was inappropriate for use in peace time. Plus they said that if we had to deploy we would have time to learn what we needed on the way, it didn't take long to train this stuff and we should rely more on our noise making weapons anyway.

Even as an MP we had NO training (that means zero, nothing, not a thing) during our IET Basic MP course on anything to do with restraining someone, use of batons etc. Lots of military law, police and investigation skills, map reading etc. What I did learn came later when we did a two week course run by the NSW Police Tactical Response Group (TRG) for us in exchange for using our range facilities and because one Inspector was an Army Reserve MP officer. Our CPP training was pretty ad hoc in those days too and really only got organized as I was leaving in 1985.

I attended at least one brawl every second thursday night (pay night) over three years and usually a couple on pay weekends and always one at the boozer on camp the night before payday. What was used was no different to any pub blue amongst civvys and friends still in say it hasn't changed. If the confrontation was managed pre-emptively (get the first hit in while he's still mouthing off) then it never went to a grapple/punch type affair. If it went ballistic then it was the same ragged chaos as any pub brawl.

As has been said,every unit had its share of tasty lads but not everybody was dangerous. The best I saw was a short arsed artilleryman drop three big pub bouncers 1-2-3! with one punche each. We had just arrived to arrest him as the publican had called the camp after the soldier decked two civvys. Then he drops three bouncers and now it's my turn to deal with him! I just called out from across the bar in my best parade ground voice "Gunner! Outside, at attention! NOW!" and thankfully he complied. He had no quarrel with me or the army, just the civvys. Turned out he was an amateur boxer and a very tasty one at that but he had trained before joining up. If he hadn't complied, what would I have done, you ask? Why I'd have arrested him... of course! Me and my partner and a couple of state coppers, the three bouncers when they got back up, anyone hanging around the duty room when we called it in and Uncle Tom Cobbly and all!
Perry

I wouldn't underestimate Uncle Tom Cobbly. I hear he recently got his blackbelt from Rickson Gracie.

i've used an eye gouge once, very last resort.

Do you want to tell us the story then Gavin?

This is the only account I can remember reading of a military guy involved in unarmed combat against the enemy. It doesn't really go into specifics but the soldier prevailed despite sustaining a broken collar bone at the beginning of the assault:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-10-19-silver-star-cover_x.htm

There's a story about an old school TKD guy called Nam Tae Hi killing North Koreans in close combat during the war but I can't find it online.

From reading about these guys what they were able to do seemed more to do with their mindset and preparation than any particular technique.

Nick Hughes wrote:done fingers in eyes and under the eyes (could see my fingers under the flesh of his cheeks and it caused his face to swell like a balloon)


Biting yes...taken the tip of a finger, the bottom of an ear and an eyebrow over the years. I wished they'd told me you have to floss afterwards.


Nick

and then he woke up

You obviously don't know much about Nick then.

In all fairness, if you don't know someone you would probably come to the same conclusion though it would be a mistake in Nicks case.

Peter wrote:You obviously don't know much about Nick then.

In all fairness, if you don't know someone you would probably come to the same conclusion though it would be a mistake in Nicks case.

of course I have no real means to to prove my point, just as Nick hasn't the ability to prove that he experienced these events.

I have though found a few untruths about Nick on this website, after former 2REP member highlighted to me that someone under the self proclaimed occupation of a self defense instructor was making claims that he had served in 2REP, when actually Nick only served for 5 years in the Legion, with closest to getting into 2REP was lifting up the gate for them as he served as MP for the majority of his service.

His hate for MMA is also amusing, when he knows deep down that most semi-pro MMA athletes would jap slap him silly! never mind Pro MMA'ers!!

I expect a selection of dit spinning to 'back up' his claims now

BM

Welcome to the forum (which is normally done by introducing yourself like everyone else does).

Gotta love trolls that skate in under pseudonyms who start slagging people without properly introducing themselves or telling us of their vast experience before doing so...sigh.

Couple of quickies though...

Will you publicly apologize regarding my service with the REP if I go home tonight and scan my service record in which lists my service with the 3rd Company of the regiment? How about Mick Coup who's on Face Book, if I should have him contact my Cpls and fellow paras who are also on face book and have them verify I was indeed in the REP?

Don't know who you got your information from but they're wrong skip. There's also forums out there about the Legion and the one I used to be on required verification before you could become a member. My para brevet (wings to you) are on there along with my recon diver brevet and commando training brevet as well as some others.

As for hatred of MMA...wrong again...congratulations. I've never said I hated MMA or the people who practice it...in fact, on the contrary, I can find you many posts where I've said I respect anyone who gets into any sort of sporting arena and competes against someone else. What I don't like is the attitude of some of them who announce that their god's gift to the world of fighting, they've created something new, and that nobody else could possibly have a clue when it comes to fighting.

I am on UFC III (the one shot in North Carolina) in the corner of my good friend Roland Payne (an MMAer) who I helped work on use of the gi with in case he ended up drawing Gracie. I teach Krav at the local Crossfit gym run by Greg who's got a slew of fighters training there for MMA comps and I've just taken down the posters given to me by Matt at the Rock - another local MMA training center - for his fight night last Saturday entitled "Rock the Dock."

Want to go for 3 out of 3? I did not serve most of my five years with the military police so you, and your source, would be wrong yet again. Epic fail mate. I did four months in basic training at Castelnaudary like every engage volunteer does. Then I went to the REP where I served as a recon diver with the 3rd company which included a tour of Djibouti. (Every REP company tours every four months). After the REP I went back to Djibouti with the 13th demi-brigade where I served again as a recon diver and then in signals. After my 2 years was up there I ended up in the HQ regiment both in signals and in the MPs.

Better luck next time.

Nick

Ok, I take back everything I say.

Please delete my account Admin

BM signing off

blackmaskers wrote:Ok, I take back everything I say.

Please delete my account Admin

BM signing off

ROFLMAO! What a 'Berkshire Hunt'!

OTOH

as a sidenote/observation

This is how spourgate could have gone down had he been real.

Knob wrote :"Ok, I take back everything I say.

Please delete my account Admin

BM signing off"


Simon (Lau)? Is that you?

So that will be "no" to the apology then?

Nick

PS: and all this on St Michel's day - the patron St of Legion paras...sacrilege I say.

BN, not one mention of Nick being a Bully boy, karati man interrupting the "Muay Thai Thread", Nor an E European to be seen in the vicinity.

Simon Lau- Naah! but I for one would welcome him back because he was such good value, hopefully BM will stick around as we don't seem to have our very own forum idiot at the moment despite the fiersome contention being put up by you know who for this illustrious title.

Nick