Brian's ZDK comments

Brian: Did you read Gavin Mulholland´s book? I asked you on the other page, but it looks like you missed my question.

Brian S wrote:

Is it that Kata will help people train in grappling?

According to Gavin it will,and his students seem to be very good at grappling.Like Socrates said,its best to read the book as it gives a very good explanation of how kata works.

I've not read Gavin's book yet, but I do plan to.

I can’t believe this endless argument has risen again. It is such a load of crap on both sides most of the time that it makes my head spin.

First off you have to compare apples to apples and both sides are guilty of trying to compare apples to oranges. Would I consider myself experienced and knowledgeable in karate? Yes. But these days my “method of training” is MMA. Do I compare the two? NO, at least not as like items. Do I think an MMA fighter can kick the living crap out of most black belts? Yes, both in the ring and in the street. Do I think that 6 months of MMA will make you a better fighter than 1 year of karate? Yes. Am I a sport fighter? No; I consider myself just a fighter. It may be self defense, but I don’t term it. I happen to find MMA the best way to train all that I know and to continue to progress without any extra baggage. “I” believe that fighting and self defense should have no borders or bounds and should be able to cross lines. I train to be able to fight 3 or 5, five minute rounds even though I don’t (may not) need that in the street. For sport? No….but just to be the best fighter I can be. Why shouldn’t a SD practitioner be able to cross into the ring or cage and vice versa?

Ok, but here is the issue. Do I think that a bouncer or a Special Forces guy or a high risk security person/bodyguard are valid fighters/self defense proponents? Yes…but they wouldn’t last 1 round in an MMA bout. Why? Different goals and different methods. Apples and Oranges. The former is for self defense, fast hard and simple while the other is for a lasting bout that goes for rounds. The self defense type doesn’t train to last five, five minute rounds and he doesn’t usually train in the same manner of the ring or cage fighter. It is meant more for going from control to whatever force necessary. The MMA guy has the one same goal always….win.


The problem arose because “karate’ falls into the first category; that of self defense or the security/bouncer type. After the move to Japan from Okinawa they started to take on a sporting aspect and follow a similar path as Judo did breaking from old style jujitsu. At the same time, back in the early days of karate it pretty much went unchallenged due to its mystery and claims of being able to kill a man with one “karate chop!” From that point all types of wonderment began. “Can karate beat boxing?’ “Can it beat Wrestling?”
These things would go unchallenged for the most part or done in a half assed manner with a sporting aspect. However, karate had already started to take on the aspects of “sport fighting” or at least another method of all around fighting. Over the years karate did nothing to correct any of the misinterpretations and continued to give the impression that it was just plain all around unbeatable. It was never meant to be or compete with sport fighting or to “beat’ all comers. It was only meant to defend ones self or loved ones.

Enter the Gracie challenge….I won’t go through this because everyone is very familiar with it. However it pushed karate further into comparison with sports. Karate helped to sink itself because it never did much to differentiate itself from the sport pack. No one breaks balls on self defense guys or bouncers and such for not being able to fight a three round MMA bout….why? Because they never claimed to be the end all to fighting as karate did. At the same time, for all that karate had made itself out to be, it should have found a way to immediately dispatch the Gracie’s. After all they found a way to dispatch us! Karate and kata backers today always say that karate always contained ground defense and grappling yet none of these experts showed up to fight the Gracie’s.

Then there is the kata issue which I have written enough about and won’t do again; it’s tiring. I will say this however and that is, that while I don’t feel the need for kata and feel it is an antiquated way of training and transferring information, most people misunderstand it. Most of those people are the kata advocates themselves. They have claims of people who are geniuses at figuring out applications and who have ‘the best’ and most effective applications etc. Ok, great, I can go with that. “BUT” that isn’t kata. Those are applications they made up out of the kata through there own very good imagination and fighting prowess. They have nothing to do with the original applications handed down from the kata originator. So in that case then who needs the kata? If you can make up your own applications then the traditional kata no longer holds its value, make up your own shit . Besides the fact that kata is actually only basics and most people practice backwards. They learn a kata and then get told or taught applications later or are left to figure out their own. Kata were meant to come last…not first. First you learned techniques and defenses and practiced those with a resisting partner. After you had skill and knowledge in applying the techniques “then” a kata was taught that contained said techniques and defenses you practiced. Now you knew what the kata meant. It was your notes to take home and a method to practice the techniques. The kata was your “basics” training. It was a way to practice your basics and correct your form/technique. As for it teaching you to defend yourself…..forget it.

In Pinan/Heian godan there is what everyone agrees is an Ippon Seoinage, or a shoulder throw. Both Okinawan and Japanese practitioners seem to teach the same application and it is actually one of the most clearly visible moves in kata. However, you can practice that kata 10,000 times and still never be able to do that throw. Not without actually throwing someone the same amount of times. So why practice the kata….just practice the throw. While practicing the kata you can practice the ‘technique” of throwing in an effort to iron out any kinks in form but without the weight of a body on you that will never happen. Anyone who has practiced Judo knows what happens during a throw. Anyway, I’m getting too close to discussing kata and I promised myself I wouldn’t.

I haven’t read Gavin’s book but I’m familiar with his stylings through Corran Powel and “his” writings. I like it. It is very much like Kyokushin. But I have no knowledge of his kata application or views. I also have no Knowledge of ZKD training methods so on these things I can’t speak. However I do know that they are descendents of Goju kai which is a descendent of Okinawan Goju founded by Miyagi Chogun. There are a couple of links to Miyagi in Okinawa that have direct lineage to him and have carried on his karate as well as “his” applications. If I had to learn what Goju kata are about and what the applications are that were handed down directly from the source I would look to them. If you do look to them you will see that their applications match. Well, they should as they are the real thing and come from the same source. Now…if Gavin’s or ZDK aren’t doing the same ones then they made them up. Is that bad? Not at all and they are probably better. I have seen the originals and IMO they aren’t workable in today’s world. There are kata “principles” that can work in a self defense situation and “should “be utilized but many don’t even have a clue about these. But the applications (the originals) leave a bit to be desired in my book. They may be the cats pajamas to others but for my money….no way. So like I said, these other modern practitioners may be sucking kata for all it’s worth, I don’t know as I haven’t seen them. But if they aren’t doing what Higaonna or Chinen are doing then it is not the same or the original which kind of makes the kata argument moot. It is like they took a screw drive and instead of using it to screw things they use it to pry things and use the back of it to hammer nails. It may work for them but it has nothing to do with what the tool was designed for. Yet they will argue for its worth based on what “they” created.

Tommy (I only meant to type 5 lines)_P

Post edited.

That's what I call a straight answer.

Ok, but here is the issue. Do I think that a bouncer or a Special Forces guy or a high risk security person/bodyguard are valid fighters/self defense proponents? Yes…but they wouldn’t last 1 round in an MMA bout. Why? Different goals and different methods. ... The former is for self defense, fast hard and simple while the other is for a lasting bout that goes for rounds. The self defense type doesn’t train to last five, five minute rounds and he doesn’t usually train in the same manner of the ring or cage fighter.


The problem arose because “karate’ falls into the first category; that of self defense or the security/bouncer type.

so just to clarify tommy, purely as a self defence system you have far less issues with karate than in its application to the ring or cage?

and on from that, did the more traditional forms of karate spar at all? i wouldnt be surprised if they didnt. and im not saying that as a bad thing as im now moving more away from sparring after training with john skillen and mick coup.

melvinfferd wrote:

Ok, but here is the issue. Do I think that a bouncer or a Special Forces guy or a high risk security person/bodyguard are valid fighters/self defense proponents? Yes…but they wouldn’t last 1 round in an MMA bout. Why? Different goals and different methods. ... The former is for self defense, fast hard and simple while the other is for a lasting bout that goes for rounds. The self defense type doesn’t train to last five, five minute rounds and he doesn’t usually train in the same manner of the ring or cage fighter.


The problem arose because “karate’ falls into the first category; that of self defense or the security/bouncer type.

so just to clarify tommy, purely as a self defence system you have far less issues with karate than in its application to the ring or cage?

and on from that, did the more traditional forms of karate spar at all? i wouldnt be surprised if they didnt. and im not saying that as a bad thing as im now moving more away from sparring after training with john skillen and mick coup.

As self defense karate has less issues yes, ( practiced with its original intent and not like 95% of modern karate dojo). But somewhere along the line, it treid to do both and things became disconnected. But there again, by itself there may not be enough (in karate training) without more understanding of what the Okinawans/Japanese refer to as riai. To simplify, not using karate against karate like attacks but rather more realistic acts of violence. From an understanding of "complete" techniques and the underlying principles behind them and the stances that surround them defenses can be successfully trained. Kata "bunkai" is only the analysis of the movements or their basic understanding. Learning the principles behind the movements allows you to take a technique and it's attached body dynamics and use it in different ways. That is how a kata is built upon and your techniques develop a likeness to the kata rather than applications being extracted as is from a kata. From there you start to practice "Oyo" or going beyond the basic application. Adding the what if's and extending the techniques. Follow ups etc. It is almost like one kata being a whole system based on principles of movement and technique.

As for sparring, I don't think they sparred as such as you think of sparring today. There is a difference between kata based karate and kick punch karate. Kata based karate isn't meant for the ring and is based on defensive maneuvers derived from kata and applied in practice to a resisting opponent delivering mock random acts of aggression. Then you have forms of karate like Kyokushin who, although they practice kata, aren't bunkai based. They spar and fight more like Thai fighters or kick boxers and their self defense is based more on being a bad ass and kicking and punching rather than defenses against grabs and hugs, locks and heymakers etc. They are more easily transitioned into sport.

If you want to practice karate in an older fashion and have it kata based then you break into groups/partners and work defenses and principles against meaningful attacks with increasing resistance. Eventually you move to actually fighting in that free form manner with no set attacks but rather a play fight of random and flowing attacks and defenses utilizing the principles gained from the system (which is its kata). Again building in severity and intensity of fighting. Standup, clinching, wrestling, locking etc.

If you want to protect yourself from harm...possibly escape, or thwart an attack karate can work "if' trained properly, which many dojo don't. If you want to be a "fighter" then there is much that karate has to offer by way of "techniques' for fighting. But the whole karate package containing all the artsy stuff and slow learning stuff as well as the character building isn't going to do it. Fighting takes aggression, karate doesn't take an aggressive stance in its modern form. It is too defensive, peace seeking in its nature.


Choki Motobu, one of the greatest karate founders and one who used to test his skills in street fights and bars in old Okinawa, once wrote:

"The techniques of kata have its limits and one must come to understand this. The techniques of kata were never developed to be used against a professional fighter, in the arena or on the battlefield. They were however, most effective against someone who had no idea of the strategy being used to counter their aggressive behavior."

Tommy

thanks very much for that tommy. ive just read that Choki Motobu's son is still teaching his fathers art in Osaka. there are also a couple of dvds out on the family system. by any chance have you seen them?

Brian S wrote:

yes I do agree that you cannot effectively practice grappling in a solo format. Just like boxers can't effectively practice punching by shadow-boxing, or even hitting a bag; you gotta hit something (preferably something that hits back)

Actually you can effectively practice punching against a bag, or other impact device). In fact it is one of the most effective methods. Of course some of your training has to be with other people, but not all of it by any means.

The grappling is different because that involves manipulating someone else's body, rather than just striking it. See the difference?

As regards pro Kata people, I fell that the way they contradict each other merely serves to help denigrate the training worthiness of Kata in its entirity. But that's just me.

Geez mate; even when I agree with you, you want to argue with me...! LOL ;-)

Yes, you can practice 'the punching' in the air or on a bag, but you can't practice 'the getting the punch to actually hit someone'... The punching itself aint no good without it hitting the moving resisting target... See the difference...? ;-)

And again, you are putting all the 'pro-kata' people in the one pigeon hole. I could put Steve Morris and Kaarl in the same pigeon hole of 'no kata guys' if you'd like... ;-)

melvinfferd wrote:out of interest bryson, what style did you train with in okinawa recently? is that a style you hold in the highest regard when it cones to karate?

id be interested to visit a club on the mainland if they have a branch. though i dont like some of aspects of karate training, especially kata, i fully admit that some karate practitioners are very good fighters.

in october there is the next bare knuckle tourny here created by Kenshinkan. hopefully some top burmese fighters will also be competing this year.

It was Gojuryu; at the Jundokan (where Morio Higaonna trained before going on his own).

And yes; I do hold it in high regard when it comes to karate.

I am not sure where you are; I can put you in touch with someone...

melvinfferd wrote:thanks very much for that tommy. ive just read that Choki Motobu's son is still teaching his fathers art in Osaka. there are also a couple of dvds out on the family system. by any chance have you seen them?

Yes, I've seen one containing history, Naihanchi kata as well as the 12 kumite drills.. Actually his son is pretty old. The DVD was in Japanese (Okinawan) and translated.

Tommy

TP: I can’t believe this endless argument has risen again. It is such a load of crap on both sides most of the time that it makes my head spin.

BK: But you got sucked in mate! ;-)

TP: First off you have to compare apples to apples

BK: What I said...

TP: So like I said, these other modern practitioners may be sucking kata for all it’s worth, I don’t know as I haven’t seen them. But if they aren’t doing what Higaonna or Chinen are doing then it is not the same or the original which kind of makes the kata argument moot.

BK: After training 'at the source', I am of the opinion that Higaonna, Chinen and others LEFT the source before they had gone into the deeper teachings of Goju. That's not to say they aren't superb karateka who couldn't punch a hole in me, but Higaonna Sensei's karate (more specifically, that of his students) is GO-GO (hard-hard) as opposed to hard-soft. Just a personal opinion, but based on 40 years of doing this stuff...

TP: It is like they took a screw drive and instead of using it to screw things they use it to pry things and use the back of it to hammer nails. It may work for them but it has nothing to do with what the tool was designed for. Yet they will argue for its worth based on what “they” created.

BK: Indeed. The kata are what they are, not what they want them to be...

Bryson, im in central Tokyo.

Tommy, from the dvd you saw did you get the impression that the style deserves its reputation as being quite different to modern karate?

melvin,

If I am not mistaken, Shinko Gima, one of the Jundokan seniors, is in Tokyo; I'll have to check.

I thought I was doing Goju myself, until I trained in Okinawa with Masaji Taira, Tetsu Gima and Tsuneo Kinjo... NOW I'm doing Goju...! ;-)

Taira san is currently enjoying some acknowledgment for his own kata/bunkai work, but it is his power development that I find most impressive. He's about 65 kg ringing wet, and can hit like a mofo... I blocked one of his punches; I seriously thought he'd broken my arm when it hit. Felt physically ill; wanted to cry. That sort of power. And I am not easily impressed...

And he looks - I don't know another word to describe it, other than - 'lazy' when he does it. He just stands naturally, and WHAM! Out like a snake and as hard as a baseball bat. Uncanny...

PS has this thread gone somewhere else now...? ;-)

melvinfferd wrote:Bryson, im in central Tokyo.

Tommy, from the dvd you saw did you get the impression that the style deserves its reputation as being quite different to modern karate?

There isn't any flash or aesthetics from what I saw but then again it was just two old men demonstrating. I like Motobu Ryu because it doesn't waste a lot of time with a boat load of kata. The whole system is pretty much based on Naihanchi and maybe Passai. It is clearly principle based. With the principle base in mind it makes it more readily transferable to application if you worked at it. Other than that I was a bit less impressed than I started out being in my earlier research into Motobu.

What I feel happens is that no matter how well intentioned a karate system is as far as realism (non sport) it is still stained by the more modern Japanese watered down training. If it has a belt system then it is following a Japanese outline for training even though it claims to be Okinawan.

For me, all karate became weakened by the Japanese changes such as class format and learning schedules, ranks, competition, etc. When I say karate can work as self defense if practiced right I am usually talking about an older method of training. When I say older, people usually assume I mean older as in "before competition karate." No...I mean older as in before there was any teaching method at all. At one time it was more like "hey,' you fight good....can you teach me?" There was no order to how you learned, no beginner kata then advanced (so to speak) there was only the instructors favorite things to teach. No formality....nothing. Today, no matter what the Okinawan karate dojo say....it's all Japanese.

So with that said, even Motobu Ryu has the contamination of Japanese structure. But at least they approach kata from a principle standpoint. I think it is worth a look to understand Motobu's 12 kumite drills and see how it looks like Naihanchi. It isn't exact movements from Naihanchi but all the defenses have a "Naihanchiness or a Naihanchi feel/look to them. "That' is application of a kata....that is beyond bunkai; it is "oyo."

But again....for me it is more of something of interest than usable. There are still too many defenses against karate type attacks. That throws application right out the window. IMO, anyone that wants "karate" and is ok with taking the extra baggage (they want the whole package) but at the same time want to learn something with a little more substance as far as self defense then I would go either Okinawan Goju or Motobu Ryu. However Motobu dojo may be hard to find. Seibukan karate seems interesting also. There are a few more obscure Okinawan methods but they are very hard to find.
Personally....I had my fill I absorbed....I didn't "become."

Bryson....yes...where the hell did this thread go?

Tommy

TP: Today, no matter what the Okinawan karate dojo say....it's all Japanese.

BK: Training at the Jundokan has no formalities, except for the kids and beginners.. You just go and train and one of the seniors will come and tweak your technique. Lots of partner drills. Hard thwacking contact. The Jundokan left the Okinawa Gojuryu Karatedo Kyokai so that it didn't have to play Japanese karate. Works for me...

TP: But again....for me it is more of something of interest than usable.

BK: One of my old instructors used a motoring analogy... When you are a young guy, you might like a gas guzzling muscle car. When you are a little older, you might opt for a practical mid size sedan that will be reliable to a fault. When you are old enough to be able to afford it, you might splash out on an old classic car that you lovingly adore and spend hours just polishing and admiring, You are still an enthusiast and one isn't any 'better' than the other; they all just have different purposes and different places in your life. That;s how my training has been. I study some things for the practical value, some for the sheer joy...

So with that said, even Motobu Ryu has the contamination of Japanese structure.

for someone living in japan i can understand exactly what you mean

The Jundokan left the Okinawa Gojuryu Karatedo Kyokai so that it didn't have to play Japanese karate.

If I am not mistaken, Shinko Gima, one of the Jundokan seniors, is in Tokyo; I'll have to check.

if you could confirm that id be keen to visit his dojo, if he has one.
much appreciated. though im still not keen on kata haha

Bryson Keenan wrote: BK: Training at the Jundokan has no formalities, except for the kids and beginners.. You just go and train and one of the seniors will come and tweak your technique. Lots of partner drills. Hard thwacking contact. The Jundokan left the Okinawa Gojuryu Karatedo Kyokai so that it didn't have to play Japanese karate. Works for me...

Bryson, was this training "Goju?" You see, even though I always followed the system (s) to the letter and did things as they should be according to the "system" I always had a slight problem with it. This is why I always went home and did my own thing. I taught by the book for years but still added my "flavor' so to speak. Eventually my flavor became too much a stray from the system.

What you describe is very appealing as far as training goes (if I'm interpreting correctly) if it is more free wheeling. But that is why I ask if it was Goju. Because that would put it right back into the "system box." It would have boundaries. If someone was a good fighter or a coach, or a boxer they would teach what they know and it would be very open ended.
As for boxing it would be just that "boxing." Boxing is boxing and there isn't the plethora of styles with rules and techniques that are or aren't part of the system as in karate. If it's fighting, rather than boxing it is even more free in its adapting and utilization of whatever from wherever. You may have preferences from instructor to instructor or fighter to fighter but these are more likely to be based on body types, weight, speed, limb length etc.

I tend to hit a wall when it comes to a system having a ceiling because a certain technique or method doesn't fit in with the "systems" philosophy (or sometimes dogma). There is always talk of "Shu ha Ri" but does the system really promote the "ri' stage? Or is that too much "change."

I'm 51 and had my first karate lesson around age 11, I only stopped traditional methods and teaching last year....you do the math. There came a point where my karate had to be like boxing. Not a style or system...just a fighting method. Also consider I grew out of all the karate extras of self improvement and philosophical crap. Personal choices, you know. I found that the more I learned the more i questioned. It isn't my "not" understanding what kata and karate are about. it is my all too thorough understanding that makes me say, 'good for some, not for me.' There is less there than a lot of people think. I think the less you know the more you believe (or want to believe) is there. it's an argument not unlike believing in life on other planets or dare I say belief in God.

So what is the Jundokan training...just karate...free and progressive all encompassing? Or does it have borders? or does it stay within the framework of Goju? (which would make it limiting).

Hi Tommy

To be honest, yes it does have limitations. The Jundokan teaches the Goju taught at the Jundokan. It is the essential elements only; the basic building blocks.

Kinjo san (8th Dan Jundokan) has his own dojo in Shuri, Tokomura Dojo, where Taira, Kinjo and others expand and explore. They are loyal to the source, and will keep the cultural legacy that is the Jundokan, but they constantly evolve and improve their own personal interpretation of the art.

For example, the stuff that Masaji Taira teaches through his website is NOT taught at the Jundokan. Its sort of like any 'school' system. The Jundokan teaches the up to the basic degree level, but the 'post grad' studies are pretty much free form and up to the individual research of the practitioner, like post grad university studies.

We appear to have been training about the same amount of time (I started at 9 and am 49...). I, funnily enough, went through the 'ditch the kata' stage back in the 80s when I started my kickboxing and Muay Thai training.

In the mid-seventies and early eighties, though, it was ALL about FIGHTING for me. Given that I fight alot less now (not at all, hopefully!), I now have different reasons for continuing my journey. Hence my return to the source.

I was the classic Charles Atlas 'before' ad when I was a kid. Skinny, shy, a bit of a nurd at school, etc. My training made me who I am as an adult. Not just some skills development to make me a better fighter, but the training itself, the journey, the goal-setting and achievement, the pushing of mind and body past limitations, etc, etc...

Although I teach practical self protection amongst the things that I do, I don't see that my students are getting that same 'journey' by just going the SP route. Had I have learned some covers and escapes and chin jabs and developed a fast track bag of self defence tricks and been satisfied with that, I honestly don't believe that I would have developed into the person I am now. So, the journey is very important to me, hence my return to things that are perhaps superfluous to some in here. But I still concentrate on the practical; trust me...!

Great post Bryson.

We all train for different reasons.

I took Kempo and then Filipino martial arts, I feel the FMA was more effective but if I were to send my son somewhere I would definitely start him in something more traditional (probably Judo) with rank requirements etc.

andrew

A quick question for those of you that have been training that length of time. Progressing and changing direction as you have to end up where you are now.. looking back, would you do it all again the same? Or would you do things differently?

I did 7 or 8 years at a pretty poor club and yet, im not sure I would do much differently if I got the chance. I'd certainly have left a bit sooner, but the bulk i'd probably keep the same for the simple fact that it has contributed to who I am today - which im (relatively) happy with.

Cheers,

Ben

Ben wrote:A quick question for those of you that have been training that length of time. Progressing and changing direction as you have to end up where you are now.. looking back, would you do it all again the same? Or would you do things differently?

I did 7 or 8 years at a pretty poor club and yet, im not sure I would do much differently if I got the chance. I'd certainly have left a bit sooner, but the bulk i'd probably keep the same for the simple fact that it has contributed to who I am today - which im (relatively) happy with.

Cheers,

Ben

Hi Ben,

Personally, I wouldn't have done anything differently... It's been quite a ride (all 40 years of it, and a long ways to go...!)

BK

Ben wrote:A quick question for those of you that have been training that length of time. Progressing and changing direction as you have to end up where you are now.. looking back, would you do it all again the same? Or would you do things differently?

For me, that is hard to say. Right off the top of my head I would say no, I wouldn't do it the same. I would start out in wrestling or MMA or something along those lines. But that may be easy to say now because I spent so many years doing traditional arts. At this point it all seems so simple and easy but that is only because it is part of me as a complete fighter and something that will probably always be a base.
Bryson speaks of "the journey" and I understand him. I was loyal to traditional karate for that journey. It just got to a point where it became too redundant and I kept walking down the same path over and over on my journey. Even when I would find new inroads and a way to improve my journey; if I looked deep enough it was just wasting my time. I'm not stupid and don't need to keep going over or being reminded or re-heating or extending what I have already learned. I no longer needed the journey or the methods of training connected to that. I should have left when I was younger....that is my mistake.

However I still have to say it is hard to say if maybe I would have done things the same or not. I probably wouldn't have tried to make karate my "life." I would have left all the "journey' and way of life stuff out and just practiced the fighting aspects. Learn the "techniques" then apply them my way. I started karate for the fighting. After all these years it's still all I want. I learned what karate had to offer and while I understand that people feel they can always find more and the journey never ends; for me, I believe that even when I'm 80 I still won't be ready to settle back into that. All that was my early school years and college type of training. It made me what I am and it is part of my whole. I won't go back. Anything I felt was useful from traditional karate I adapt to my MMA.
I use MMA for just what the name implies "MIXED" martial arts. I don't use it as sport, I use it as the best way I have found to train my defenses realistically and keep my martial arts on key. I adapt what is useful and fits me. That certainly includes what I have learned from karate. So now I am all things.

My kata (if you like) is applied only, never solo and never in a static or definate form. When I'm fighting "that" is my kata.


Reading over this...I suppose I would do things differently; but that's knowing what I know now.

Tommy

This is an interesting discussion.

Do you mind if I rephrase the "do things differently" question?

If you had a couple of teenage nephews, who came to you looking for advice about training, what would you tell them? Imagine one was weedy and getting bullied at school and the other was a natural athlete. What would you get them to train? And in what order?