Engage with rage?

I dont know if this subject has been covered as I am new to this forum.If so please direct me to the relevant postings.If not, then my question is,what is your opnion of the "engage with rage" method.Is this a good way to get new students to improve their capacities to deal with an actual survival situation?Thank you for you time.

Mindset and the ability to be aggressive when necessary is a key part of the SDF training. It certainly benefited me; I'd not compe across this sort of thing elsewhere. indeed, I'd been exposed to a lot of the usual 'rise above your petty emotions and remain detached as you perform perfect techniques' bullshit - which I never really bought on the grounds that it's impossible........

MJD Hello, Mick Coup was commenting that if one has been desentised to violence to a sufficient degree, where one can detach and "switch off"emotion that is best.However I like most people have not.After three years of training in RBSD, I find I can start the interaction in cold blood(in training I should add) but when things get tough,I find a blast of serious rage and emotion is like rocket fuel in my veins.Thanks for your comments.Regards

Theres a world of difference between the acceptabnce of someone who's desensitized and the zen-chi-detachment-calm-woo-la-la-ninja meditation skills bollocks. Most of the peple espousing the latter view desensitisation and stress inoculation as unnecessary because they already have their wa in order. or something.

I see what you mean, I too am not a buddhist monk, and trying to teach ordianary people to behave like they have medidated for 30 years is indeed total rubbish and dangerous.Agreed.

Yup. It's just not possible under combat conditions - and the people espousing it are the ones that think that stress incoulation is just barbaric.

MJD, who on earth would be so stupid as to think functioning under full adrenal situations is beside the point?THAT is THE point isnt it.In my training I have seen women half my size enagage me in such a way that had they been fighting for real, they would have torn my face into pieces within seconds and escaped.Thats what real training is about.

You and I know that - but tons of people don't. My old Ju-Jitsu instructor for one. He was good at the technical side but when it came to mindset he believed in the whole Chi-Wa type stuff. ie that you could enter a calm and peaceful state while someone was battering you. We disagreed on that one.,,

I have trained on an off in traditional martial arts over the years, but my RBSD training kicks that ass big time.

MJD wrote:
that you could enter a calm and peaceful state while someone was battering you.

You can.It's called being unconscious.

I find it interesting to see those you tube clips of blackbelts in various traditional martial arts going up against an MMA fighter.Within seconds the blackbelts techniques and composure go out the window and he starts brawling,ofen in a very ineffectual way.I see also in my training when a blackbelt joins the class and we do scenarios.They often freeze on the spot when they have someone screaming in their faces "you mother f....er stop looking at my girlfriend" No composure there at all.

I've sort of accidentally conducted a field experiment into this one. The two clubs run by my above-mentioned old instructor went their separate ways when he became ill and stepped dow.

Our sister club is run by well-meaning people (some of whom are maybe starting to 'get it' at last) but basically was pervaded by the 'technique conquers all' concept pedlled by our old instructor. Lots of neatly pressed gis, neat rows in class, neat and tidy techniques. All very neat.

Our class went over to the Dark Side. We do the same techniques but we train very differently. No gi, no bow, trainining with contact, training for aggression rather than 'ooh, aggression is bad', acknowledging that emotions happen and learning to control and even use them rather than aiming for a meditiative state in which prefect enlightenment accompanies every perfect technique.

'they' see 'us' as a bunch of undisciplined yahoos who've abandoned all semblance of technique in favour of smashy-smashy. 'we' know that 'they' can't handle the reality of a fight.

Indeed, we've had responses to our stuff that were along the lines of 'Ooh, your Ju-Jitsu is VIOLENT!!!!! You can't do that. That dishonours the timeless spirit of Budo. Ju-Jitsu should be flowing and beautiful and, well, neat and tidy. Ooh, I'm all upset now."

Seriously, I've seen people upset because we do our martial arts in a violent way.

Our class went over to the Dark Side.

MJD does this mean Stu Cutty is Darth Vader and Dave Turton is the Emperor???

Yup. You've seen Stu's Vader Suit, right???

Ah yes...MJD and Dave's crew doing Star Wars....

and here it is...

If Star Wars was set in Barnsley
Chewbacca would look roughly the same except he'd only be about 5ft tall, from Kendray and called Spanner. He'd have the same amount of body hair but would also have tattoos, would permanently smell of drink and invariably sport either a Barnsley or England top.

Obi-Wan Kenobi would invariably be referred to as Chief or Cocker by his cohorts. People trying to start a fight with him would address him as Wanky-Nobby

Darth Vader would referred to as 'Elmit Head' or in moments of stress 'that dome-edded get'

R2D2 would refuse to go out on the streets after 10pm because of the number of drunks who would try to stuff chip papers in his head casing or piss on him. He would also refuse to go near groups of young kids at any time because of the high risk of being spray painted/dumped in front of a speeding train/set on fire.

Although proficient in over 3500 languages C3P0 would still be unable to understand anything anyone from Athersley said. He would regularly get beaten up for being a knacker-faced poof from Sheffield.

The Millenium Falcon would have static strips, tinted windscreens and extra-flared exhaust ports. It would have a Barnsley Chronicle I Love Tarn Army sticker in the back window and a St Georges Cross SUN SUPPORTS OUR BOYS bumper sticker.

Princess Leia would get captured by Darth Vader because it's hard to run very fast when you're wearing 5-inch platform heels and a tiny silver mini-skirt which keeps hiking up over your arse every two steps. And you've been a heavy smoker since you were 6.

The best way to destroy the Death Star would not necessarily be a desperate all out attack. Two easy ways would be to alter its orbit so it passed through Grimethorpe and tell the locals it was full of Cockneys or leave it unattended in Alhambra car park. Or you could convert it into a huge Takeaway.

Lines from the film as they would be uttered in the vernacular:-

Han Solo "I've got a real bad feeling about this" translation: "Am Kackin Missen"

"Bring 'em on! I prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around." "Come right art you bastards Al tek ont lotton yer"

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." "Bugger the mumbo - wot tha needs is a chuffin gret crickit bat"

Darth Vader trying to shoot down Luke Skywalker -"The Force is strong in this one" "Thar allus Laikin abart, theee"

Princess Leia - "You're a little short for a Stormtrooper aren't you?" "Ah dint think they took short-arses in t coppers?"

"This bucket of bolts is never going to get us past that blockade." "We nackered in this peece er crap"

Admiral Motti - "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader." "You think you're that hard, yer southern get - artside!!"

Obi Wan - "I felt a great disturbance in the Force." It's looking black over Bill's Mother's"

Luke to the Emperor -"Your overconfidence is your weakness." "You think yer really summat, dunt yer"


Nick

MJD, if they think things are too violent in training, what the hell do they think they are going to do if some drunken yobs get in their face? A few months ago we had a tai kwando balckbelt join the class.We were doing knife defense.he was saying how his kicks would deal with it.I was given the role of the "bad guy".We started at range, I covered up smashed right into him, used my left hand to blur his face and started doing the "sewing machine" type of attack shouting at the top of my lungs "I am going to get you mother f....er" he totaly froze, it was so bad that while I was stabbing him I was saying "stop me" "Block me" move off line".I have seen it many times. I shudder to think about folks who train like you described in an actual situation.They arent even used to training in a full adrenal state.It boggles the mind really.What do they think they are doing?

They're playing at martial arts.

People don't want to confront reality but they want to feel like they're badasses, so they create artifical training conditions where they can do that...

I think you got them figuerd out very well!!

Nick,

It's official. You spent too much time in the UK.

By the way Nick, you've always reminded me of Yoda. I don't know why.

"I am going to get you mother f....er" he totaly froze, it was so bad that while I was stabbing him I was saying "stop me

I have done that myself,well not even attacked them,just stood there swearing at them and posturing, and I am the least scary person you could ever meet.The truth is it only works on people who have strong layers of social conditioning,might be religous,possibly never swear,and find arguments uncomfortable.Try doing it to a lad from a tough inner city estate and the results will be different.The trouble with rage is that it quickly burns out and can turn into despair.Look how small kids,and often women,end up in tears after flying into a rage.

Have a read of this,it might give you some pointers.

http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/07Lettersemergencymindset.htm

Nick .. its took me a while to answer because I am still laughing mate

mindset is more imprtant than technique.. technique simply allows you to be physical in as many nefarious ways as you wish when the shit hits the fan

Putrid Dogs Breath, I often integrate shouting loudly when attacking, it is one more element for their brains to deal with,it adds to the impression that I am a psycho freak who is going to tear at them like an animal.

As for rage, I dont mean girlie rage that ends in tears, I mean hate filled rage of the type that overcomes fear and morality and frees one to fight freely.I am also talking about using that rage within the framework of trained fighting.While in theory it would be great to as detatched as the Terminator, I like most people arent their yet.Since this is the case, I ask what is my source of strength? What will overcome my fear, what will not let me freeze, what will get me to do what is not normal for me to do against somebody for whom violence is common place. I find that building up a sense of righteous indigination , hatred and determination to protect my rights and humanity,give me the means to fight as hard and brutal as any mother f....r out there.Thats my personal take on.

Thanks for the interesting link and points.Regards

PS, I also have to ask my self the question, if I begin to teach how am I going to give my students an effective starting point to overcome fear etc and be able to engage with a cold blooded jerk, who will see their fear and know "he has them" Focused rage applied with training is a good starting point.

visualistaion ... path working .. projection of aggression training

Beach Comber wrote:......A few months ago we had a tai kwando balckbelt join the class.We were doing knife defense.he was saying how his kicks would deal with it........?

When I took my 1st Dan Taekwondo (ITF Style) Black Belt grading under the GTI (Global Taekwondo International) many, many moons ago I was expected to Inward Cresent Kick a knife out of the hand (Knife Forward) of a stationary and totally compliant partner. In doing this I would pass the 'Knife Disarm' section of my grading!

As I didn't know any different at the time, I did what what I did to pass the grading (and thought I was pretty damn good at it too!!!).

I can see why the TKD BB said what he said, but hopefully, thanks to you, he's now seen the light and not before it was too late!

I shudder with embarrassment whenever I think of that/my grading!

Garth.