Strength?

I'm slightly confused on what to aim with regards to strength training?!

For example do you think it would be better to aim to do:
50 dips with a 10kg weight
or 3 x 8 dips with a 30kg weight

I know you need to progressively increase the weight to force yourself to grow but I'm asking what the end goal should be for combat functional strength.

Do you keep upping the weight or upping the reps



I've got up to 14 stone now and my target weight was 16 stone of functional solid muscle but that looks like a long way off and I don't really have the genetics to maintain that so my plan has switched to make the current strength/size as functional as possible.


From most of the research I've done sucessful old school combatants were mostly naturally genetic freaks, for example Mike Tyson was almost 14 stone at 13yrs of age of natural solid muscle
so he mostly did high rep circuits of body weight training since he was around his natural fighting weight that he wanted to be.
Most of the old wrestlers were pretty much the same with good natural genetics.



For us meager humans with average genetics what would you recommend the goal be?


I hope the answer isnt going to be high reps with lots and lots of weight

I read a quote from one of the "old time" strongmen.

"Anything over 5 reps and you're body building"


...keep the reps low and the weight high,5 sets of 5 is a good way to go.

Ade wrote:I read a quote from one of the "old time" strongmen.

"Anything over 5 reps and you're body building"


...keep the reps low and the weight high,5 sets of 5 is a good way to go.

sorry to get into semantics but by bodybuilding are you referring to sculpting the muscle for definition opposed to bulk building it?

I meant (or the quote meant ),anything over 5 reps and you're training for size,anything under and you're training for strength.
For size and strength,albeit a slight compromise between the two,a rep range of 6-8 is about right.

...and as for sculpting the muscle,i haven't got a clue...never seen the point

The ladies Ade.... the Ladies.

I'm with ade though, less than five is good. Though I would suggest stamina and explosive training as well. Sprints and what not.

But if it is a pure strength thing you're doing then yeah, 5 is plenty, but try to do more and if you manage more than eeerrm 7 or 8 I think, add more weights

[quote="Ade"]I meant (or the quote meant ),anything over 5 reps and you're training for size,anything under and you're training for strength.
/quote]

This is where I realise I dont understand the physiology of how a muscle works, off hand you'd think that bigger muscles are more powerful/stronger.


Also do muscles change with regard to stamina if you do more reps?
Or is stamina purely a function of doing cardio and having a strong heart and lungs to keep providing oxygenated blood to the stressed muscles?
I genuinely don't have a clue on that one.



At the crux of it I think its hard to get a definitive answer because
1. it takes so long for strength and size changes to happen
2. Everyones different genetically and diet wise

TonyJ. wrote:I'm slightly confused on what to aim with regards to strength training?!

For example do you think it would be better to aim to do:
50 dips with a 10kg weight
or 3 x 8 dips with a 30kg weight

I know you need to progressively increase the weight to force yourself to grow but I'm asking what the end goal should be for combat functional strength.

Do you keep upping the weight or upping the reps



I've got up to 14 stone now and my target weight was 16 stone of functional solid muscle but that looks like a long way off and I don't really have the genetics to maintain that so my plan has switched to make the current strength/size as functional as possible.


From most of the research I've done sucessful old school combatants were mostly naturally genetic freaks, for example Mike Tyson was almost 14 stone at 13yrs of age of natural solid muscle
so he mostly did high rep circuits of body weight training since he was around his natural fighting weight that he wanted to be.
Most of the old wrestlers were pretty much the same with good natural genetics.



For us meager humans with average genetics what would you recommend the goal be?


I hope the answer isnt going to be high reps with lots and lots of weight

Neither of the 2 programs you've mentioned will target raw strength. There is plenty of information on the net if you have the time and effort to look. I like KB'S and am a fan of Mike Mahlers stuff. You could start with his website and there are links to lots of other strength experts websites as well.

However, I agree with Ade with the 5x5 approach. It's a good basic strength program. I suggest you use heavy weights and choose two upper body and two lower body exercises plus one core exercise. Don't worry if you don't make the 5 reps on the last 2 sets....it should be hard.

Eat a high protein diet and cut out the junk and booze. Get plenty of sleep as well and sort out any stress in your life.

And don't choose any pretty boy exercises such as bicep curls or hamstrings curls. They are unnecessary when training pure body strength.

Mike Mahler's stuff is definitely good.

Also for a size and strength bias look into "Super Squats" by Randall.J.Strossen and "Brawn" by Stuart McRobert.

Mark Rippetoe and his Starting Strenght is really good for beginners trying to improve their technique.
http://startingstrength.com/

5x5 is hard to do if you are training by yourself,

take bench press...if using a weight that makes 5 reps hard then for the last 2 sets you can't get the bar back onto the rack, so you tend to not give it 100% at the end in case you end up stuck with a bar across your chest... it would be even worse if you are squatting.

I have a chaos method I sometimes just use what I've left on the bar if its heavy do less if its light do more or if its Ok I will alter the incline of the bench, sometimes i will not put the weight down..... just keep mixing it up

That's a good point Mickey.

Check out this article from Dragon Door that suggests that once your rep speed changes due to fatigue then it's time to stop the set. It's an interesting point.

http://www.dragondoor.com/rep_speed_the_secret_to_perpetual_progress/?pg=3