"Circular" Wing Chun punches

Hi Nick,

I've been trying to come up with a question beyond your interesting war stories - enough guys are working on drawing those out... Guess we're trying to make it easy for you to write The Book...

So here goes:

How do you like (or even *do* you like?) and how would you use those circular Wing Chun punches? Don't know if that's what their called, but they're centerline punches, fists vertical, hands going in a circle one over the other almost like spinning a wheel. Know the ones I mean?

I can get a good speed and rhythm, and could see them as a "barrage" but I don't have great power in them, so they seem almost opposite to the "hit once f*ckin' hard" approach.

Your thoughts?

JK

Hey JK, Sorry if im jumping in Nick,

I love them, what I would call a straight blast or chain punching,.

The thing is I don't circle them one over the over, the front fist drops and comes back under the out going fist, which goes straight out, not up and over, great for forward drive and putting someone on the back foot.

Used it once when I found myself surrounded at a party by some nobends, just blasted one of them straight though his mates and found myself out of the situation and by the time these dudes knew what was going on, i was gone.marvelous.( iwas pretty fortunate though, just took them by surprise and got out of there).

Cheers man.

Dion

It's called 'chain punching' in Wing Chun, I believe and is part of a system I qualified in. I can't comment on Wing Chun, but its uses as a 'straightblast' are widely misunderstood.

That's because, as you mention, it is not the 'hit fucking hard, deck 'im' thing. The point is...it's not meant to be! It's a conceptual difference. The straightblast is intended to be an entering technique, i.e close the gap and put the enemy on the back foot technique. The 'deck 'im' bit is then done with Headbutts, Elbows and Knees. What is important with a straightblast is not the universe-stopping power of the individual strike, but the barrage of many strikes that overwhelms the blocks/defences/senses.

Now, since the straightblast is not really a technique but a concept - take that concept and use it as you will. I can get a good strike using chain punching, hard enough to smash noses and cause damage but probably not enough to KO. However, my personal straightblast is done using western style straight left-straight rights - this is powerful enough to KO and an unpleasant barrage to have coming at your head. It's also nice to be sitting behind as an anti-ambush drill since it gets you driving forward and feels very aggressive and powerful.

OK, ideally you have awareness, etc, etc....and have preempted the enemy with your well practiced right hook/power slap. Yeah, I can do all these, but I seem to be one of the few not living in a perfect world, so I have my version of the straighblast to help me out when I've fucked up.

'Belt and Braces' as they preach in certains regiments.

If you want to do the chain punching style as you describe, perfect the punching technique but drive forward with the legs and whole bodyweight as you punch. Try this on your heavy bag and see how it feels. When I do it it is as much a rugby rucking technique, i.e drive the c*** off the pitch, as it is a 'punch'.

You guys are doing a great job of keeping the kettle going until the Teapot arrives

Thanks, this is making sense to me.

Katsu, yeah, I knew that was you, ya furry bastid.

JK

Sorry to jump in. Let me quickly add a few points before Nick comes back.

1) With wing chun chain punching, 100 punches in training is meant to equal one punch in a fight. In other words, 1,000 fast punches (a standard wing chun drill) is meant to be equivalent to 10 punches in a fight.

2) The focus in on the elbow, which drives through the middle. This can be used to clear obstacles, such as someone´s arm. A good exercise to practise this is to get a partner to hold a kali stick parallel with the floor and to drive through with the forearm. You can pull in the other direction with the other hand too (thumb on same side as fingers)

3) The knockout is meant to come on the second head shot. In other words, you fire one punch into the head, then replace it with a second shot in exactly the same position. The first shot is meant to shake the brain against the skull, the second shot is meant to shut everything down.

4) Deep one for you now - IMO, you need to practice perfect technique as a means to develop perfect conciousness of your body.

Gotta go now...

Ther is a saying in Wing Chun..If you can hit once ..hit a 100 times..

You got to remember that WC works best at close range and I mean toe to toe range so it searches for the gap and then obliterates with rapid fire punching.

Ive used Chain Punching against Boxers and it has really confused them..ive actually broken them down with it..now to be fair if they got accustomed to it they could probably counter etc but its a good one for driving straight into people and closing down the range..

There are few systems that train you for such speed at such short range!!!

The other thing is there is alot too Chain Punching..most people when they start derive all the power from the shoulder ideally it should come from the elbow..but at advanced levels its delivered from the wrist itself only if the range is such that there is little other choice..the real power is still bought up form the ground through the footwork..there s quite alot to it......

Ps 1000 chain punch drill is quite a killer great work out for the triceps as well and not surprisingly makes that 1 punch you do in reality bloody explosive....

I still do 550 most mornings still a killer sometimes....

Matty

Ps ...Socrates that number 4 of yours bloody true mate..and i guess it involves alot of Pain and frustration thats exactly where i am right now..in fact sometimes the more training I do the more i realise what an unwilling partner my Body is!!!

PPs Zen and the Art of Archery is a great Book which talks about that...



Matty

Socrates wrote:
4) Deep one for you now - IMO, you need to practice perfect technique as a means to develop perfect conciousness of your body.

No offence. I really don't buy things like this. The exact mechanics of a punching movement have nothing to do with developing conciousness.

Yes, I can see how we can acheive some kind of meditative state through the honestly of effort.....and that applies no matter what the physical activity is. But all this mystical talk about a particular style of striking being necessary to acheive "perfect conciousness" misses the mark for me. It is "Emperor's new clothes" syndrome!

Sorry!

It´s just an idea that´s been floating round my head. I´m not sure if I buy it myself or not yet...

JD,

To be honest I'm not a big fan. However, before we write that in stone let me elaborate a little bit.

I only did Wing Chun for six or so months (1st form and started on the second) I'd planned on doing it longer but we launched FIST and I just didn't have the time to get to training any more unfortunately.

What I did it for was that after my motorcycle accident which badly ruptured two discs any sort of kicking training was out the window so I went to WC knowing that they're good at that toe to toe hand fighting range (all the stuff they lack I already had in the bag) which was never one of my strong points.

Re the chain punching, initially I liked it until I tried to hit a heavy bag with it and then I didn't like it any more. Now, judging by some of the responses to your question by people far more experienced in the system than I, that may be the wrong approach but, I can't help but think, if the system is developed by a race of people who, as adults, are about the same size as our 12 year olds, that, lacking size, they came up with a rapid series of lighter shots to overwhelm rather than power shots to destroy. (Is that the longest sentece in the history of this, or any other, forum? )

Not being that build I figured why the hell am I punching like this when I can hit that much harder my way.

Nick

PS: As mentioned, you're asking the opinion of a guy with six months training in it which is a bit like asking someone with six months training what they think of kata. If I'd stuck it longer I may well be a raving fan at this point.

Thanks, all.
And Nick, thanks for qualifying your thoughts.

I think, for my current training/organizing scheme, chain punching falls into "interesting to develop, but outside my current focus (which is spending most of my bag time working a few techniques that I can use to Hit Hard (TM)).

Might come back to it when it's time to expand the focus.

JK

Mick coup mentioned something about it when i was at his seminar, i hope i get this right!, he uses sometimes a barrage of punches similar to the straight blast to put the guy on the back foot aand then resorts to his usual strike, i quite like them but i dont throw them straight blast stylee i just throw multiple straights clinch with the left hand and finish with the right.

BUSTER

Buster wrote:Mick coup mentioned something about it when i was at his seminar, i hope i get this right!, he uses sometimes a barrage of punches similar to the straight blast to put the guy on the back foot aand then resorts to his usual strike, i quite like them but i dont throw them straight blast stylee i just throw multiple straights clinch with the left hand and finish with the right.

BUSTER

It's called the reverse strategy - usually done with palms. Usually used in situation where you need to 'lay down heavy fire' before resorting to more accurate 'repeat' strategy. - I think ?!

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