Steve Morris is answering your question on his blog

And that will never happen, Kata boy.....

...

What he's doing now I couldn't fairly comment on mate, because I haven't seen it or trained in it (would have if I could travel).

What he was doing then with regards to karate was just light years ahead of everyone else as he'd dug far deeper into stuff than anyone else I'd run into had.

He can say what he likes about not being an anomaly but rumor has it he did the stamping kick in Saifa and drove his heel through the dojo floorboards. Now, if that is true, I could train with him for the next twenty years and I'm not, and I'm sure nobody else is, going to be able to replicate the feat...that makes him an anomaly in my book.

Nick

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Nick Hughes wrote:

I think she goes both ways

I'm might be off the mark with this but if your reply is meant to say I don't like Steve you couldn't be more wrong.

I think he meant the girl in the image (right and left brain).

Tommy

Now that makes more sense... I'd completely forgotten she was in the same thread.

The wierd bit was, I clicked on that again the other day and she was going counter clockwise for about five min. I scrolled down, flipped back up and there it was going clockwise.

I need to have some mates watch it at the same time to make sure it actually is going different directions to different people...I'm not convinced it just doesn't spin different ways at different times.

Nick

It does. I tested it with my hole family and the girl was going in anti-clockwise for my parents and clockwise for me and my brother. Actually when I watch closely the shadow of the legs it will make quarter-turns in both direction. Freaking stuff...

Re genetics / genuis, etc...

Sure, Steve no doubt has prime genetics, but I think his point is that you should push yourself to your own limits. The way I see it, your limiting factor should be your genetic max, as opposed to something else (not training hard enough, for instance). And this genetic max is not something that you 'accept' as a given - you push and push and push until you find it, and then you try to exceed it.

I think it's like the old 'mind over matter', in that you can train yourself to peform feats that others might consider impossible. The example of mother lifting a car off her child or kicking down a solid door to escape a fire both spring to mind. That level of mental / emotional arouseness can be replicated in anyone, and this in turn can allow anyone to perform to their absolute genetic maximum.

At the end of the day, there may well be scores of people who are genetically similar to (or, dare I say it, even superior to) Morris. Where he has differed is in putting in the work to get to where he is now, to the extent that one might even call him obsessed. Most people don't have that motivation so, if anything, it's his mentality / motivation that is different to the average man.

Nick - what's to say that you couldn't slam your heel through the dojo floorboards? In what way is Morris different to you?

Mike, that's kind of what I wanted to say but am shite at putting my point across, so yeah agree totally.

MikeB wrote:
I think it's like the old 'mind over matter', in that you can train yourself to peform feats that others might consider impossible. The example of mother lifting a car off her child or kicking down a solid door to escape a fire both spring to mind.

These things are often referred to but a) when and where did they occur and b) why doesn't everybody in the same situation produce the same feats?

Personally I do agree that higher motivation produces higher effort and better results. But untrained ladies lifting cars up?

Brian S wrote:These things are often referred to but a) when and where did they occur and b) why doesn't everybody in the same situation produce the same feats?

Personally I do agree that higher motivation produces higher effort and better results. But untrained ladies lifting cars up?

I think we're singing off the same song sheet. But, in answer to your two-part question:

a) I saw it on TV. It must be true.

Actually, a quick google comes up with: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060120.html

That's rather by-the-by, though, as my intention was to mention the examples anecdotally as opposed to in reference to specific occurences.

b) My point is not that everyone *will* produce the same effect in a given situation, but rather that (as you seem to concur), increased motivation (or emotional arousal) can produce a greater physical output.

I'm not really sure that your point stands, in any case.

Just because the desired effect does not produce itself in every given situation does not, in itself, disprove the hypothesis - other effects could be at work (insufficient emotional arousal; inability to focus it into a physical output; the desired effect is at work, but the feat is still too large to accomplish, e.g. one might be able to lift up a mini, but the car is a 2-tonne rolls royce).

In the same way, me being unable to KO you with a right cross does not invalidate the right cross as a "high percentage" KO tool.

The difference here is that many people train the right cross whereas, I would guess, comparatively fewer people train to be able to reproduce the acute emotional response that we are referring to.

We can perform a 'field test' of sorts by having an individual hit the pads without any emotional content, and then reperform the strike with added emotional intent (e.g. think about breaking the pad holder's hand / imagine the pad is someone you hate / visualise a face and try to reproduce the desired destructive effect on the pad). The pad holder can then feed back. I've done this and can vouch that it works, to a degree at the very least.

If we can then isolate and intensify this emotional intent, we could conceivable intensify the physical output in turn.

Thats very well put Mike.

Sounds like straight from the man himself.

Hope your training is going well.

Rob

Tommy_P wrote:

Nick Hughes wrote:

I think she goes both ways

I'm might be off the mark with this but if your reply is meant to say I don't like Steve you couldn't be more wrong.

I think he meant the girl in the image (right and left brain).

Tommy

Yes thanks Tommy, Thats what I meant. I tried the right brain/left brain thing and If I looked directly at the image she went clockwise and If I looked at let's say 7 oclock (if the image is twelve o clock) and watched the image peripherally, she went anti clockwise.
But when I said she went both ways I was merely stating the fact that I know her and she's bisexual

Nick Hughes wrote:What he's doing now I couldn't fairly comment on mate, because I haven't seen it or trained in it (would have if I could travel).

What he was doing then with regards to karate was just light years ahead of everyone else as he'd dug far deeper into stuff than anyone else I'd run into had.

He can say what he likes about not being an anomaly but rumor has it he did the stamping kick in Saifa and drove his heel through the dojo floorboards. Now, if that is true, I could train with him for the next twenty years and I'm not, and I'm sure nobody else is, going to be able to replicate the feat...that makes him an anomaly in my book.

Nick

Doesn't sound as so much of an anomaly to me.
I remember reading the same about Shigeru Egami. Funakoshi Gichin scorned him for it (while his son Yoshitaka praised him for it - looks like that the father and the son have had different visions of what Karate should be). Shigeru Egami also mentioned some of his "wrong" training methods, that lead him to this feat, which sound oddly similar to what Steve Morris is talking about-a "too thick" makiwara, for example.
Interesting enough, the text in the article above seems to confirm that what mattered most in achieving this was the intent. Steve Morris also put a lot of emphasis on the intent (on his site and blog), claiming that this is what distinguishes him. Well, this and the endless practice .
For what my opinion is worth, I tend to believe him that such feats depend on practice, not genetics.
Also, this means that few people will ever be able to replicate it . Most people would not be willing to practice that much-which is also fine. After all, there are some people believing that they don't need to be able to do this kind of things (heresy, I know )!

Rob Dick wrote:Thats very well put Mike.

Sounds like straight from the man himself.

Hope your training is going well.

Rob

I've fallen off the rails a bit mate, to tell the truth. The age-old excuse of work and going out taking over from training!

I still try to go boxing every week (I won that bout I was telling you about at Seni - third round stoppage), but no MMA training.

I'm heading down to the gym at work a few times a week for some of the classes (military fitness, etc), but nothing as intense as what you guys are doing with Steve.

Keep meaning to head back up to Coventry for a session! One of these days I may actually get up off my arse and do it.

Heard something about a full-time gym? Still looking to make my millions so I can rent one for him!

Bumped into Neil North, if you remember him. He has packed in training and is now training to be an actor. He's already in a play, so I think things are looking up for him.

Say hi to Rory, Spence, Dan, etc from me. I'll be back (eventually)...

Well done with the fight Mike.

Steve's upping the intensity every week, constantly pushing us, which is great, (I think !!!)

If he's a genius, I don't know! but he is a bloody great instructor, that far to few people are taking advantage of, the oppurtunity to train with.

Get back to Coventry when you can, the emphasis has been on stand up, for some while now, and we are all really benifiting, learning from a master of striking.

Upping the intensity?? I was hoping to get across and train soon, now I'm going to have to find a viable excuse.

Rob Mac wrote:Upping the intensity??

Bwahaha

MikeB - the Straight Dope? Hardy the Lancet or the Times! No matter.

Even if it does not happen the majority of times.... surely a sizeable percentage would give it credibility?

But people are getting seriously injured and/or killed every second of every day. But these cases are ridiculously rare. Take out the "standard exaggeration" that comes with all things supernatural/mystical etc., and take out things that have another more rational explanation, and I reckon you are left with jack sheeeeeeeeeit.

Brian S wrote:
But untrained ladies lifting cars up?

There is, apparently, a physiological basis for that phenomena.

Brian,

A kempo guy in Oz called Tom Slaven did quite a bit of research into the "ladies picking up cars" stuff and found some instances that were true. What he also discovered though is that they were virtually crippled afterwards.

His findings were, (in layman's terms) that your brain tells you you cannot go beyond a certain limit (like a redline in a car) but, when some bigger danger/threat/problem arises the body will override the safety level and perform amazing stuff. Of course there is a price to pay, just as there is when you thrash a car.

I also watched my brother once get flung about 15 feet across the kitchen and dining room when he put a knife in the toaster. I was asking the physics prof about it at school and it's not the electricity that throws you at all...it's muscle contraction from the electricity. Now that means he did what is physically (for a normal situation) impossible to do i.e. a standing jump of 15 feet, due to the extreme circumstance.

Now, I don't know where he did the research etc but I know he spent years tracking the stuff down and was telling us at summer camp one year about his findings. Sounds viable to me.

Nick

Really interesting Nick.
Maybe that's why insane people who are in Mental Hospitals are "stronger" than regular people,their brains don't have the mental barriers that sane people have (not afraid of harming people or getting harmed).

Good point, Nick.

I think Steve Morris actually goes into the detail surrounding this phenomena (i.e. the brain limiting the body's max physical capabilities) on his website.

Golgi tendon reflex springs to mind... quick google:

http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/07mmtrainingtips.htm


Also


Performing what are intended to be explosive moves slowly in order to perfect a skill or gain accuracy, etc., is a mistake in that not only are you forming and strengthening the wrong impression of what effect you need to cause or prevent in your mind's eye and the wrong kinesthetic impression of those internally generated forces by which to do so, but you will have failed to train to overcome the Golgi tendon reflex. Unlike muscle spindles, which facilitate muscle contraction according to the rate of stretch or final length of stretch of the muscles in which they are embedded (myotatic reflex), the Golgi tendon reflex inhibits the contraction of those muscles within which the tendon lies if they are stretched too rapidly, so as to avoid injury. Learning to overcome the Golgi tendon reflex involves specialized practices, one of which is to use dumbbells to perform short duration, high intensity, rapid repetitive movement, including oscillatory movement, through ranges of motion resembling those of required of a given skill--a form of plyometrics. Another is, once you have formed an explosive impression in your mind's eye, not to hesitate but to instantly act upon it so as to bypass any feedback controls or the forming of a 'lesser' impression of release. In other words, once you form the impression, you pull the trigger, and the bullet, so to speak, is fired instantly, and the next bullet is already loaded in the chamber ready to do so again and again.



http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/07articlespsych.htm

Brian S wrote:MikeB - the Straight Dope? Hardy the Lancet or the Times! No matter.

Even if it does not happen the majority of times.... surely a sizeable percentage would give it credibility?

But people are getting seriously injured and/or killed every second of every day. But these cases are ridiculously rare. Take out the "standard exaggeration" that comes with all things supernatural/mystical etc., and take out things that have another more rational explanation, and I reckon you are left with jack sheeeeeeeeeit.

I'm not sure I really follow the logic of your post.

You're basically saying that, as some things happen comparatively often (e.g. people getting injured every day), then other things (i.e. women lifting cars off crushed children) must also happen nearly as often in order to be substantiated?

I think I can see what you are getting at, which seems to be that the two are linked (i.e. people are getting injured, therefore other people should, by all accounts, be getting involved and performing superhuman feats in order to prevent the injuries / help the injured parties). However, I'd argue that you are overlooking a number of factors:

- Emotional attachment to the injured person (mother and child is a strong bond - how many of these injuries occur to individuals with their mothers in the direct vicinity?)

- The nature of the injury (i.e. the victim is in a prolonged state of injury, whereby action can be taken to relieve the pain through 'super-natural' means - i.e. the guy is stuck under car and it can be lifted, even though one might not normally expect the car to be liftable).

So, how many people do you know who have been crushed under a car with their mother nearby?



I'm not sure it matters in any case. Perhaps no-one has ever lifted a car. The point still stands that "you can train yourself to peform feats that others might consider impossible."

I will do my best to refrain from using anecdotal examples without clearly labelling them as such, in future.