When to kick & when not to?

Nick,

Earlier posts on GT forum show that you preferred to dance around a bit with the hint for some Western boxing about to be delivered, and then deliver a single kick and GAME OVER for the protagonist!

It's fair to assume that you had (and probably still have) a deadly kick and the confidence to use it wherever possible. Perhaps also your height allowed for some advantage as well (ie your hips would be a lot closer to an enemy's head than someone 5ft 6ins tall)?

Just curious on your general views of 'when to kick' and 'when not to kick', for the average Joe? Particularly early in a scrap.

The rear leg (right for me) front kick seems easy and reliable on bags etc. But if you don't middle it on a 'live' target I assume you'll wear an elbow or get grabbed by the leg and upended etc. What are your thoughts on this as an opener please (naturally with hand shots to follow in the strike combination)?

Cheers.

Hmmm, good question. First off, yes, I had long legs, good flexibility (not great) and the height to pull off all sorts of kicks. I've used roundhouse kicks to the head, reverse crescent kick (a al Billy Jack) [on one occassion to see if I could], side kicks, front kicks, groin kicks et al. My favourites were always the left lead foot roundhouse to the jaw, a skip up right side kick to the guts/chest area, or grabbing hold and reefing in knees.

Unfortunately, since my motorbike accident and damage to my lower back I can no longer kick worth a damn (shame, because I had a lot of power in the side kick and was curious to measure it one day. There is a video of me kicking a heavy bag, being held by one of my students and his back hits the ceiling as the bag swings on the chain. Also Slacky took a 1/4 power one I threw to lllustrate the point...untrained for the last six years, no warm up and restrained because I know I'll have trouble walking for the next few days after throwing one...so he can confirm this methinks)

My height, and Coup and I talked about this in another thread, gave me a distinct advantage because, as you correctly pointed out, my kicking someone in the jaw meant lifting my leg to about solar plexus height. (there was a Samoan one night however who I did it to who was my height so it was doable)

When to kick? We were told by Bob keep your kicks out of it on one on ones because the law didn't like us kicking unless we were outnumbered. I broke that rule a lot becasue I didn't like fighting at hand range if possible. The problem I had it with it was that at close range he can hit me to whereas when I kicked it was over before they could do any damage. (kind of like having artillery to use against guys with pistols...not exactly fair but...)

So, I'd open up with them as I closed the range when and if I could. If you can do them well it can have a HUGE psychological effect on the oppo.
Side on skip up sidekick is the one I'd go with if I was you. People have no idea (or little) on how to deal with someone standing side on. You can use it offensively by skipping towards them (as seen in Bruce Lee films), in place by throwing it from where you are, and defensively by sliding the back foot back about twelve inches before throwing it. Very powerful kick.

Nick

Did you never had some knee problems from all that kicking or is there something special to avoid it?? Because after kata or other kicking drills that are done in the fresh air my knees hurts...

Ciao
Julian

The thing that I'm convinced has trashed my knees is sitting round in seiza i.e. kneeling on hard wooden floors oriental style. Years later I read an article in Lancet about the difference between occidental knees and oriental knees. The author couldn't determine whether theirs were different due to their constant kneeling and squatting or, whether the difference was there first and just enabled that form of sitting/squatting.

My knees, in other words, hurt now if I try and squat down (to look at a book on the bottom shelf for example) for any length of time but kicking practice and kata never bother them.

I would recommend two things. One, begin squats and or leg extensions because if you build the quad up you take pressure of the knees and two, don't ever hyperextend the leg when kicking like I see some people do. Always keep a slight bend in the leg otherwise you're going to end up with the equivalent of tennis elbow.

Nick

Nick

I'm interested that you've mentioned reverse crecents. Though I, as a capoeirista, do a lot of these kicks I started a thread ages ago and generally got negative feed back on them.

Also I researched a bit on the bag with them to see if it what it was like hitting something heavy and solid with them.

The targets used in capoeira lesson are those little paddle things with little or no resistance when one kicks them, I know form experience that many schools of capoeira never use targets to train kicks. When I breifly took my own capoeira lesson I immediately changed the main stay target pad to boxing focus mitts for a bit more resistance and for a definite target area, it only having one side you can hit.

Can you tell me your experience with crecent kicks, exercises you found productuve and perhaps a few times you used them.

Did you often aim for the head? Also would you consider the floating ribs or hip a good target if the arm wasn't in the way. Also would you agree that you can use not only the foot itsself for the kick but perhaps breed in a little roundhouse and use the shin if the distance became a bit pare shaped?

(and you thought you wouldn't be busy this Saturday )

AXE and thanks Nick
Jagunco

I practiced them predominantly on focus mitts and, on odd occasions (usually showing or goofing off) on a heavy bag. I don't do them like Tae Kwan Do does them though, or anyone else I've seen. I used to throw my kick chambered off to 45 degrees like a front kick half thrown and then whip the heel of the foot across the jaw almost as a push/whip motion.

Nick

Great thanks nick

Nick Hughes wrote:The thing that I'm convinced has trashed my knees is sitting round in seiza i.e. kneeling on hard wooden floors oriental style. Years later I read an article in Lancet about the difference between occidental knees and oriental knees. The author couldn't determine whether theirs were different due to their constant kneeling and squatting or, whether the difference was there first and just enabled that form of sitting/squatting.

I dunno Nick, I've been doing the seiza thing for years with no ill-effect.

So what I am thinking is there might be something in the length of the bones IF there is anything is the seiza theory.

My knees, in other words, hurt now if I try and squat down (to look at a book on the bottom shelf for example) for any length of time but kicking practice and kata never bother them.

I would recommend two things. One, begin squats and or leg extensions because if you build the quad up you take pressure of the knees and two, don't ever hyperextend the leg when kicking like I see some people do. Always keep a slight bend in the leg otherwise you're going to end up with the equivalent of tennis elbow.

They're both good ideas. I'm nearly 50, have been training since I was 12 and never really had knee problems, but have done millions of squats and twice as many kicks and so have always had relatively strong quads. So if Nick is right about the squats, and I think he is, then that is probably why I have little if any knee problems.

I still train fairly hard and run marathons all the time and still never knee problems (although I did snap an achilles in the over 40's Kyokushin worlds a few years back, but i think that was overtraining because I had a marathon the following weekend and was doing too much). The locking out the knee in kick training seems to have a high correlation with knee damage over time.

But for my thinking, the major cause of long-term knee damage (other than being kicked in the knee a lot) is doing training drills and fundamental warm-up exercises wrongly.

For example, holding kick pads for thigh kicks wrongly. Never hold the pad on the side of the thigh. it may not hurt once or twice or for 6 months, but the accumulation WILL cause the knee to lose integrity. especially if the kicks are weighty. If you wanna practice thigh kicks, hold the pad on the front of the thigh and turn the thigh out to the side as the kick comes.

In basic warm exercises, just never stress the knee. Stretch it for sure, but do it right. One trick to remember is when you put your foot on the thgh as in a yoga lotus posture, often done one leg ata time in training warm ups, never put your FOOT on the thigh so the ankle bends. That really stresses the knee laterally. Instead put the ANKLE on the thigh and keep the ankle at 90 degrees. Result: zero stress on the knee and a much better stretch for the thigh/hip muscles.

Mate,

It might not be the karate seiza that's an issue in small doses. Wayne Byrd however would often take the Saturday morning class in Manning St and do the entire hour and a half sitting in seiza. Richard Norton did the same at a Summer Camp up near Toowoomba. Also the Aikido bit of moving around on the knees undoubtedly took it's toll. (I'll try and locate the article and see what the doctor said exactly)

Nick