Dealing with larger attackers

Hi Nick

I've asked this on forum before but i don't think i've ever asked you directly.

What would be your advice for a lighter/smaller person taking on, or being attacked by, a heavier and stronger opponent?

I've got Kevin O'Hagan's excellent book "I thought you'd be bigger: A small persons guide to fighting back" and i've researched the subject at some length but i'd be very interested in your view, expetually now i have your DVD series.

Thanks as always

Paul

P.S I keep meaning to return that faulty DVD but i've been caught up and distracted with other things, i will get round to it.

I remember a similar thread back on GT's site... "what advice would you give to someone 5'6 165lbs who wanted to take out someone 6'6 230 lbs?"
Which made me immediately think "Nick, can you tell me how to beat you up?"
Nick also thought this and suggested asking someone like Dave Turton, as he's vertically challenged, how he takes on people bigger than himself.

Besides, who's bigger than Nick in terms of height? Last I heard the Jolly Green Giant had retired from fighting.

Interesting question. Nick, have you ever had to throw Andre the Giant or Shaquille O'Neal out of a bar?

JK

I was just interested in Nicks point of view, is all.

Not all big guys can fight. Nick just happens to be a scary exception.

When I was working the doors, the big guys weren't as difficult to deal with as the short stocky guys with something to prove. Maybe it's because their size (big guys) has gotten them out of so many fights in the past that they never really had to learn how to fight too well.

Still, the toughest guys I had to eject were the 'pitbull' types that had a low center of gravity, freakish strength, and a sh!t load of aggression. The 'mastif' types were usually easier once you called their bluff.

To tell a quick story. I was at a club with a bunch of friends about 5 years back. I was waiting in line with several people to use the toilet. Some HUGE guy (he looked like a WWE wrestler) walks past everyone and makes for the bathroom door.

This guy really played the part. He was wearing a flannel shirt with the sleaves ripped off to show of his arms and the shirt was only half buttoned so he could flex his pecs to anyone within range (don't you just hate him already?) He was also close to 6'6"

I'm not a confrontational guy and will usually laugh things off but I couldn't let this go. I shouted out to him, "Hey buddy, there's a line back here."

He came over to me and fanned his arms out to flex his lats while flexing his chest at the same time. He also tilted his head back as if too look down on me. I'm kind of big (6'3"-215) but this guy was much taller and much heavier.

"What?" he said kind of aggressively.
"There's a line for the toilet. You were about to walk past everyone."
"So?"
"So get in back of the fucking line."

He then flexed his pecs again and said something like, "Don't fuck with me man, cuz when I blow up you won't like it."

To which I responded, "Don't flex your fucking tits at me. Fuck you."

I had him lined up with a beauty of a left hook (he had no clue the entire time that I was getting my accuracy and positioning cuz the idiot was too busy posing) but as it turned out a weird look came over his face that almost said, 'aren't you scared?'

He walked away and mumbled, "Whatever man." And that was that.

Afterwards, I yelled at myself because had that beast had any street savvy at all he would have likely grabbed hold of me and deadlifted my spine in half. But still I think it's a good example of a big meathead playing the part who then backs down when someone smaller calls their bluff.

Sorry for going on forever Nick. And sorry for jumping in Paul. I'm waiting for the Simpsons to come on and they don't start for ten minutes.

Jeff

hi

I think the main problem when facing a larger opponent is the psychological.

It goes through all our heads, but as we all know being big does not mean mean being a good fighter, thankfully.

If he's big and a good fighter then you have a problem, but he still feels pain and he can still be KO'd.

tc

T

I hope Nick and you all don't mind me butting in here as well...

I'm rather small.
Most guys I've met are bigger than me.

When facing any opponent - I always need to use my head.

Where lies this guys strengths and weaknesses? Part of this is very intuitive to me and comes natural when faced with a potentially hostile situation. I always assess the guy, the walk, the size, the body language, coordination, eyes etc...Checking out the surroundings, people etc too. Where can I run off to? Can I get this guy to a better place from my standpoint? If you're fortunate to have the chance for it that is, and they don't KO you out of the blue .

Generally speaking - a taller guy has more range. He can reach me before I can reach him. A big, heavy guy have more body mass etc... How can I use this to my advantage? How do I avoid his "strenghts" and keep my control of the situation, or gain the advantage in the first place?

I need to know my own strenghts and weaknesses objectively (and that is to me the most difficult part)... A tall guy doesn't have to be quick for instance and neither does a big guy. Still they can be...

Interesting topic... Right down my alley, if I may say so! Looking forward to reading more...

Lynx

My Dad told me of a fight once where a dwarf was kicking off in a pub and a giant went over to him to ask him to calm down the language.

Apparently my Dad's still not sure the dwarf didn't have to jump to connect with the giants nose, but he managed.

Well some dogs do have a good point in not jumping all the way to the aggressors face/troath when they can get a good bite in the groin!



Lynx

Sorry everyone, I've been away getting my final certifications taken care of to be a success/life coach.

Yep, I'm not the guy to ask how to beat big people...you have to ask someone small how they do it.

I have had to fight on two occassions I can remember where the opponent was much much bigger. One was a Samoan and I roundhouse kicked him in the chops as he tried to sneak at me from the side while I was dropping his mate. That was a scary night...I thought I'd killed him when he didn't wake up for a while. Two medics visiting the club were working with/on him for a long time before the meat wagon showed up.

The other was against some organized crime twats up from Melbourne. They didn't know who I was and I didn't know who they were so there was a lot of smoothing over done later by parties stuck in the middle. The big one was about 5 inches taller than me which I didn't realize till I turned round and was looking at his top shirt button.

I dropped him and his mate came over the table with his hands down his shorts...i thought he was having a wank but found out later he was going for a little pistol he kept there. I dropped him with a backfist as he was in the air and then went back to work on the big one again.

So, only having to worry about it twice I just don't have the experience to be of any help. Secondly, I could tell you my weaknesses but that would be a rookie move if ever I heard one.

Nick

Nick Hughes wrote:Secondly, I could tell you my weaknesses but that would be a rookie move if ever I heard one.

Lemme guess kryptonite or silver?


Whats the life coach thing - if its not being intrusive?

Nick joined a cult?

Yep, I'm not the guy to ask how to beat big people...you have to ask someone small how they do it.

Fair enough, i thought there was no harm in asking.

The subject of small/light against big/heavy has always interested me.

So PaulR - what's your take on the subject, if you don't mind me asking?

Lynx

Pull Up,

A couple of people asked me the same thing up in the general section so I shall answer it up there.

Nick

Jeff Menapace wrote:
Afterwards, I yelled at myself because had that beast had any street savvy at all he would have likely grabbed hold of me and deadlifted my spine in half.

I hope someone else found this really funny

My thoughts involve grabbing a chair/stooll/glass/stick/half-brick and hitting the crainium repeatedly (preferably initially when they're not looking) until the desired result is reached. Maximum result, minimum effort

David didn't beat Goliath fairly, he used a high velocity missile! Nowadays we'd use a .45! And we wouldnt fire it from a slingshot!



Forget what anyone says, duking it out with someone bigger than you will probably hurt (alot). Cheat, repeatedly!!!!

colt style 1911s are only used by people looking for trouble... SWAT, dealers, etc.

Go SIG! Go Strong!
P220!!!

Go SIG my arse...just completed Southnarc's most excellent extreme close quarter shooting class and the only weapons I saw malfunction were a SIG and a 1911.

This weekend one of my top students Daniel and another high ranker Bill went to a tactical shooting course and reported back that the 1911s had once again screwed up.

Nick

Couldn't agree more...

and those 1911's are troublesome rascals.


Lynx

Lynx wrote:So PaulR - what's your take on the subject, if you don't mind me asking?

Lynx

My take on the subject?

Hmm i think it could depend on a number of factors. The most obvious being the victims state of mind, or his ability to turn on aggression. Mentality plays a key part in self protection of any kind but when faced with a larger, or bulkier adversary the smaller/lighter person might start to feel underclassed. If however he was a strong confident person then i can't imagine he'd find any person a threat and the size/weight factor wouldn't matter to him in the slightest. Probably that's the main factor that might be a problem for the lighter/smaller man.

I also think, judging from what i've read of Andre Martin, a passive but confident persona could better the chances of dealing with a bigger opponant. I know that Andre used to use the friendly but "i don't want to fight you" approach all the time as he was frequently outsized and it seemed to work wonders for him. Probably instilling a false sense of confidence and superiourity in the larger man and therefore making it easier for him to deliver a incapacitating blow.

Aside from that i'd also have to say that the "learn to hit fucking hard" saying goes just as well for the big/small arena as it does any other.

Mentality i think though is the panultimate key.

I should mention though that i don't have much direct experience and most of this is just down to theory and observation.

Thank you for getting back to me, PaulR

I agree with the mindset being important.

I believe though that If one realizes that one is outclassed in some way, then one can adapt the behaviour to face that situation. That realisation I think of as one of the most important ones.

It's ok to be outclassed in strenght, height, lenght, power etc... but one can always use one's brain... Seeing the situation for what it is and being aware and avoid getting cornered by that aggressor's strenghts and use your own.

The ability to adapt is very important, and yes as you say, that might be mentality - or mindset. It's important to have in a situation like this... At least that's how I think about it, for now.

Regarding the "fighting" part - I leave it to someone else to try to explain, who knows it better than I.


Lynx

PS: I just want to add that I believe that knowing your body well physically, will help the mind to make that decision in an optimal way, if you'll have to... Just a thought... Take care! DS

ok we dont train to beat on people who are smaller and weaker anyway. oh look that 6ft 6 guy is looking at me funny i'd better sort the twat out doesnt tend to happen.

against a bigger guy. eye jabs, groin grabs, throat strikes and generally any of the other nasty crap we all seem to train in. close him down quickly so he cant get his big guns in place and then grab onto somethign fking painful while working your way to something even more painful. By the time goliath has worked out what kind of fight he just stepped into it should be to late for him to change gears. Im not looking to trade punches Im looking for the soft squishy bursty bits and then im gonna squish and burst the hell out of em.

Great topic

Better train to beat the little guys too, the first time I boxed a guy shorter than me he took me apart. I am quite short at 5'5" so you can guess that I do not face shorter guys often.

Andrew

Why does it appear to be the rule that smaller guys always have the monopoly on nasty in-fighting?

Just because the longer ranges are not viable to a smaller person doesn't mean that the shorter ones can't be utilised by a bigger man!

Analyse his weakness? What does being bigger and heavier give as a weakness exactly - higher centre of gravity perhaps?

I never met a big guy who wished he was smaller so he could be better at real fighting!

Bigger adversary? No magic bullets, just try harder.

Mick

Mick