SD with a flashlight

Dear Nick,

Recently, I purchased a tactical surefire flashlight (Exec Defender E2D). I've been show a routine for its use (thanks Slackbladder) based on flashing and moving aroundf a clock face.

However, I would love some more information on its use. I tend to keep it in my right hand with the aim of using it to strike the aggressor with a right cross/ using the end of the torch. This will keep my hand strong and add a punching weight, but I can punch my weight with accuracy without it.

Would two lights be better than one and Slacky mentioned about a strobe device but discussed its limitations but I commented that a single/double flash and move is only of use when total darkness is upon and maybe a strobe would be best for dusk/ day light when one cannot blend into the background?

Also, I've on a book reading mission at the moment in terms of Self Defence and would love any titles on this aspect and any other niche forms of combatatives using 'layers'. Are there any other good 'layers' to be used in SD?

I was also thinking of investing in another torch, using this one as a back up device. Can you rec. a good torch, does not have to be Surefire, that gives a very blinding flash, yet small enough to clip onto belt holster? I know my surefire produces 60 lumens (unmodified) and uses a normal bulb. However, for investment in add ons I don't think the extra money for just 5 more lumens would be worth it. I love the very large surefire but they don't have a pressable tail cap, but produce up to 500 lumens. Can you get stun gun like torches that produce a devastating blinding flash, with a loud noise directed towards the attacker or am I in the realm of Psudoscience here?!

Many thanks in advance.

Steve.

Steve,

I'm not a big torch man to be honest. I have a Surefire and a mini-mag as well as one of those small key ring lights. I like the latter the most because it's with me all the time and takes up zero room and I don't have to constantly replace batteries. I usually cart the others round in my Go bag or on jobs only.

Re fighting with them, I'm more likely to use empty hands in a fight than anything else. (I've used weapons such as nunchakus, lumps of wood and so on but I prefer having my hands empty) In many cases hitting with one isn't going to do any real damage beyond what you could do with your fist except a lot of superficial tissue damage (especially if you use the version with the scalloped teeth) Again, from a legal/tactical viewpoint, I'd rather belt someone with a hammerfist and ko him and leave no marks, than do the same strike with the torch, ko him and chew some nasty looking meat out the side of his boat race which would look bad later on in court.

Re the strobe light version...Slacky and I were at the Blade show a few years ago and some guy on the other side of the room, in broad daylight and under arc lights, turned his on and I happened to look at it. Trust me when I say they work even in daylight. Now, I don't know how effective they'd be if you then closed your eyes and ran at the guy and started belting him but the strobe works in daylight.

N

Nick Hughes wrote:In many cases hitting with one isn't going to do any real damage beyond what you could do with your fist except a lot of superficial tissue damage (especially if you use the version with the scalloped teeth) Again, from a legal/tactical viewpoint, I'd rather belt someone with a hammerfist and ko him and leave no marks, than do the same strike with the torch, ko him and chew some nasty looking meat out the side of his boat race which would look bad later on in court.

Goo and often overlooked point IMO - maybe cause of the sense of security a "weapon" gives people want to think it more effective than it is? Also if one is to use it theres the question of carry and - drilling - employment.

Cheers,

/Narco

weapons are for when you know shit's going to kick off. you need to buy time in order to access a weapon, which is tough when someone is barrelling down on you.

my gun is for the protection of third parties, not myself. it is unlikely i'd be able to deploy it without first incompacitating the aggressor. my knife, as scary and sweet as it is, it a tool that'll likely never get drawn for defense either. the only tool/weapon that i have ready, beyond what nature graced me with, is my kerambit wrench when walking home alone late at night. got my house keys attached and makes sense to have them ready.

They sell the strobe attachments for around £15 including postage from the US on ebay. Pitty you still don't have the choice it appears to have momentary on. Reading the description, I believe you have one push for strobe and fully own for constant on.

I would never use the jagged edge on the torch - don't see the point rather use a right cross or some other punching angle but the torch would allow my fist to hold something, giving natural stability and durability to the hand upon impaction with the other chap.

It might also be good on the floor for eye gouging or putting pressure of the trachea with either the side of the torch or the edge. In this situation, punching striaight down at the face the brian would be protected for the most part by the support of the underlying ground, not allowing for the head to shake. Punching from the side is better but at this point I imagine the torch would be good for attacking anywhere and everywhere on the face, maybe even combining it with punches to the side of the head (from a hook type angle, generating power from the waist) and downwards with the torch.

The opponent would be mounted and rode. If they turn over onto their stomachs (if I allow them), then it could be used as a choke.


Steve

steve_collins_coventry wrote:
I would never use the jagged edge on the torch - don't see the point rather use a right cross or some other punching angle but the torch would allow my fist to hold something, giving natural stability and durability to the hand upon impaction with the other chap.

Never used this type of "fistload". Are they really that good? If big enough i cant see how they would not tend to make it harder to connect with the knuckles proper since the first fingerjoints would be forward of them. Either that or youd have to compromise the angle of your wrist. What say thoose who have used them?

Also i dont think i can ever deliver as much force concentrated on a small, hard area with my fist as with my torch - using the mechanics of a hammerfist. Also the torch dont break as easily.

steve_collins_coventry wrote:
...on the floor...punching striaight down at the face the brian would be protected for the most part by the support of the underlying ground, not allowing for the head to shake. Punching from the side is better but at this point

I dunno - think its more probable that youd bounce his head of the ground, since few people would push their heads down on the ground in a situation like this. No problem shaking brain then?

Cheers,

/Narco

Hi Steve

I was also thinking of investing in another torch, using this one as a back up device. Can you rec. a good torch, does not have to be Surefire, that gives a very blinding flash, yet small enough to clip onto belt holster?

Marcus Wynne recommended the Fenix L1T on the old forum as his choice for a backup:

http://fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=70

I got one, as I have no space for a big torch (but could not afford a surefire). It has 2 levels of output, 37 lumens at the higher end and 10 lumens if you twist the head. It is very bright, I have used it and it worked well.

It runs on a single AA cell and I have used it every day for a couple of weeks with no problems. It fits into a closed fist, and has a tail cap switch, so not useful as an impact weapon. It does not have a strobe function (and I don't know if this is available as a mod).

It comes with a belt sheath, a lanyard and some spare O rings. At $43.50 with free International Shipping, I think it was a great deal.

There is a way of ramping up the output with Li-ion battery, but I have no idea what that means

Mike

Thannks Mike.


Already brought my surefire otherwise would have gotten this torch. Like the bass guitar do you play I was teaching myself but need to get back into it once completed all my coursework.

I love the musicman and precision basses but can't afford one

Don't have a spare one knocking around do you ?!


Steve

Hi Steve,
Yes I did play quite regular once upon a time. Barely get a moment now.

I like the Precision too, I have a mexican built one, which sounds good, but my weapon of choice was the Rickenbacker 4003. Never played a Musicman, but have always fancied a go.

Sorry no spare ones!

Mike

Ah shucks well its my birthday in october if you're feeling particularly philanthropic


I love the rythem 2 string rickie and can play it with 6 strings. People say the bass rickie never stays in tune and it the scruge of may sound mixers.


Steve

Re fistloads...I've used rolled up coins a few times and a small sand bag from an ankle weight once to see what sort of effect they got. Hard to tell because I used to knock people out with just my fist but they certainly went down when I used the load as well. (Once the coins burst and all these scroats were on the ground rolling round picking up my money in the middle of the damn fight...bastids)

I've also used an old diver's watch over my fist against a bunch of squaddies outside a club one night...same result but I expect I'd have got the same without it. (the idea of the watch was it's supposed to break so you cut them with the internal workings. Being as it was a Seiko, the damn thing didn't break so no joy there)

Re the head on the ground and not being able to splash...big fallacy. When you stand in an open room and are hit a portion of the force is gone due to the fact that you can move with it and thus negate it. When you're up against a wall and are hit you take ALL the force.

One of the bouncers I knew who died (worked across the street in a club from me) had his head against a wall when he took the first hit, it bounced off and when he hit the ground they put the boot in a bunch of times both kicking and stamping. The blood clot in the head that killed him was six inches long and two inches wide and due to the stamping on the ground according to the info I got back from para-medics.

Nick