Groundwork!!?

Here's an old topic, i'm sure. Still, it's not here now, and new folks can't see all the valid opinions.

So, groundfighting, groundwork, having a rest work, how valid is it in street combat? How important is it? What way should it be taught, if at all?

warmest wishes
Wayne

I did BJJ for a while and enjoyed it at the time. One thing I did that was really eye-opening was grapple with people with no training in groundwork. I wrestled with a guy who outweighed me by about 30 kilos. I let him take the mount and I really struggled to get out because he just lay on me with no skill or gameplan - just pure body weight. I really had to fight hard to escape (despite 'knowing' two or three solid escapes) and it taught me a lot about not assuming that the groundfighting you learn in a dojo will be the same way people will fight you in the street. Moreover, it taught me that especially for smaller guys, hitting the deck with someone much larger than yourself is a bad idea no matter how skillful you may be.

Good point Jason. Too many people train to beat people in their own systems. I remember blocking reverse punches in Tae Kwan Do for years and I got in a fight at school and the guy did a haymaker that clipped my jaw and white belts were always the hardest to spar.

Nick

to be complete you have to fight at all ranges

learn ground work but dont go there deliberately, its the last line of defence

This topic could go forever... I believe you need some ground work. Get comfortable with the position so you don't completely panic if you find yourself there. IMHO this to practice, getting up without putting your face into a foot or knee. Getting out from under someone. Understanding a bit on positions. Standing grappling... over hook and under hook and throw weapons into the mix. Caution... don't allow yourself when training to fall into the counter mindset with bjj practitioners.

Hey! My post was deleted!

It was purely said tongue in cheek guys!



But back to the original question.

Ground fighting for the street:

- Learn the different positions and the respective strengths and weaknesses of those positions
- Learn to get off the ground fast (there are drills to train for this)
- Find some strong techniques or concepts that you can apply and use in such a situation and get damn good at them
- Practice
- Understand why it is a bad idea to fight in the ground in the street and try and avoid it happening

I can't recall where I heard it, but....

In old fencing schools back in the day the qualification for master/teaching whatever involved fighting three extremely skilled opponents and three completely unskilled people as part of the test. The idea being that they would be completely unpredictable and force you to think (and fight) outside the box.

Any rbsd system is massively flawed without some ground game imo, sooo many fights/altercations go to the ground in the street it's a must to include it.

If for no other reason than to feel as "comfortable" horizontal as you are vertical so to speak.

Couple this with the fact it's a completely different type of fitness and there are two valid reasons surely?

I would have thought that if a fight went to the ground then both fighters would normally feel uncomfortable so the natural instinct for both fighters would be to get up

so..... is a knowledge of groundfighting necessary so you can get up quickest or with the upperhand? or to keep it on the ground where you have the knowledge to win

I don't think anyone can argue that it's not th last place you want to be in the street. However if the opportunity arises to finish it on the ground then why not? Depending on different factors.

Most of the time you are going to want to get back to your feet but surely if your on the deck and are having trouble getting up you would want to be as comfortable on the floor as possible?

jesse wrote:I can't recall where I heard it, but....

In old fencing schools back in the day the qualification for master/teaching whatever involved fighting three extremely skilled opponents and three completely unskilled people as part of the test. The idea being that they would be completely unpredictable and force you to think (and fight) outside the box.

Good point.

I often find sparring with the newbies can be a challenging experience due to the unpredictable nature of their "style".

fights will go the ground if it is allowed. Often this is via fatigue of one, or they lose balance. It is primal to resort to some form of grappling under certain circumstances. IMO, a reality system is maybe best suited to use concepts, then techniques, that are the same for single & multiple attackers. In this case, it is true, some form of fighting horizontal needs to be trained. The way it is trained is crucial. Perhaps the first step is the word 'groundfighting', which can possibly imply some form of prolonged activity on the ground. This shouldn't be the way training should be approached. Techniques drilled constantly to a high level, that have the aim of getting back up immediately are what is surely most useful. In belfast a few weeks ago, a guy got into an arguement on a weekend. He took the guy down immediately to the ground, as he has trained to do. The other guys missus started sticking her stilletto into his head, whereupon he was set upon. In another time & place he was right to try what he did maybe. Groundstuff is needed, if it is put into context in the street, always assuming there will be more multiples.

warmest wishes
Wayne

for what it's worth my opinion has always been that if I end up being dragged to the ground was not to engage in ground fighting but to get back to my feet pronto, if that involves biting the other guy (a la kinumatai - apologies over the spelling) then thats what i will do, screw trying for an oma plata or an ankle lock, that'll only get your head kicked in