Self-Protection Dot Com
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

chi gung

5 posters

Go down

chi gung Empty chi gung

Post  ari Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:37 am

Hi Dave

i heard you did chi gung, i have just started and wanted to know what your thoughts and opinions were on this. Do youfind it beneficial and in what way? are there any places in london that you can reccomend?

Thanks
Ari

ari

Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2006-10-11

Back to top Go down

chi gung Empty Re: chi gung

Post  Dave Turton Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:05 pm

Yes I did for a while .. but in the end I was sure of its benefits to be honest, especially when I met a 'Murma Adi' master, who showed me that it was no more than combining breath and muscle tension.
In fact many years ago people like Farmer Burns, and several early 1900's wrestlers did similar exercises... without the 'mystery'


Its a bit like practising say . stretching .. an aid to getting in better condition, but really nothing mysterious as such.

It certainly wont do you much harm, but its not magic mate

London? .. No I dont know any, but I will ask around and get back to you if I hear of anyone

thanks for the question

Dave Turton
Moderator

Number of posts : 1381
Age : 75
Localisation : Rotherham South Yorkshire
Registration date : 2006-08-14

http://www.selfdefencefederation.co.uk

Back to top Go down

chi gung Empty Re: chi gung

Post  Joshu's Dog Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:44 pm

Dave, I'm reading you as saying here "it's good but it's not mystically special, you can do the same without the mumbo jumbo".
Is that more or less it?
Very interesting how much of the "esoteric eastern wisdom" is also present, often without the hoohah, in some of the commonsense or basic activities of the West.
Joshu's Dog
Joshu's Dog

Number of posts : 972
Age : 63
Localisation : CA, USA
Registration date : 2006-08-14

Back to top Go down

chi gung Empty Re: chi gung

Post  Dave Turton Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:46 am

Basically thats about the truth Jonathan.

In most cases its fancing wrapping ..

Often the methods have vailidity and usefullness, but for reasons that say a lot about what people WANT to believe, they come wrapped up in, what my old instructor always labelled

unfunctional bilge!

Dave Turton
Moderator

Number of posts : 1381
Age : 75
Localisation : Rotherham South Yorkshire
Registration date : 2006-08-14

http://www.selfdefencefederation.co.uk

Back to top Go down

chi gung Empty Re: chi gung

Post  REG999 Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:42 am

"that it was no more than combining breath and muscle tension.
In fact many years ago people like Farmer Burns, and several early 1900's wrestlers did similar exercises... without the 'mystery'


Yes, the actual chinese qi gong and all the iron shirt are combining breath and muscle tension, isometric work. That was what i was taught by a chinese (Who also does chinese fighting systems) that is in to powerlifting/strongman, he told me qi gong is just another representation of fitness, nothing crazy.

REG999

Number of posts : 72
Registration date : 2006-08-26

Back to top Go down

chi gung Empty Re: chi gung

Post  Steve Rowe Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:21 am

There's medical qigong and martial qigong, the martial is all about enhancing agility and power. This is an article I wrote on the qigong aspects of Sanchin kata that directly reflects the Tai Chi qigong that I practice.

I love sanchin, a ‘core’ kata to many karate systems, it adds the qigong aspect, harmonising mind, breath and body. It consists of three sections gradually increasing the level of difficulty in physical co-ordination and breathing technique. In the first section you move one side at a time opening and closing one side of the body with a whole breath followed by a half breath (to prevent dizziness), in the second section you move opening and closing both sides of the body at the same time flexing the spine whilst taking deep breaths utilising the abdomen and opening and closing the chest and back; in the third section you apply the highest level of co-ordination with each side of the body moving independently of the other with the highest level of restrained and focused breathing.

All the time the body is holding the internal connections and pumping the internal energy….

“Soften guys….. soften…. You’re moving like a car with the handbrake stuck on… the tension is also limiting the amount of breath you can take in, sink the chest and open the back…”

“I thought I was…”

Sensei put his hand on John’s lumbar region, “you have to open all the back, your lower spine is seized, you need to be able to open here to ‘bow’ the entire spine and open the ming men to energise the kidneys – hold your posture but keep softening...”

John was obviously frustrated as he couldn’t do it… “It just won’t move!”

“The muscles are seized, it will take time for you make the necessary neurological connections and be able to soften and flex, but it will happen if you keep working at it.”

“Will this make a better ‘root’?”

“Yes it will.”

This made Bob pipe up. “I don’t understand this ‘root’ business Sensei, surely if we ‘root’ it will render us immobile?”

“That’s a common misconception Bob, it’s a part of a process that actually increases mobility, speed and power…”

“How can that be, surely to ‘root’ you have to be immobile?”

“What are the four ‘ideas’ in sanchin?”

“You mean to sink, float, swallow and spit?”

“That’s correct.”

“Why do we have to sink?”

“To give us our root?”

“We sink because it’s the nature of our internal energy to rise, that’s why we have to constantly push it downwards – and how do we do that?”

“By releasing the ankles, knees, hips, lower back and chest?”

“That’s right, we ‘soften up’ to allow our bodyweight to ‘sink’ into and be held by the muscles and tendons, we ‘swallow to bring our internal energy and awareness into our seiki tanden and then down into the feet, but what happens then?”

“Dunno….”

“It naturally ‘bounces’ upwards – we help that with the various ‘pumping’ actions of the body, this is all a very rapid process and allows us to ‘float’ and move with great lightness and agility, the faster and and more powerfully we can do this – the faster and easier we can move. Then what?”

We’ve sunk, swallowed and floated – so I guess we ‘spit’?”

“Exactly, with the internal connections ‘hard wired’ into the body by persistent, knowledgeable training, the energy is always there and available to be spat out to the opponent.”

“So the root is only a momentary part of the process?”

“That’s right, it’s linked to ‘sink’ and ‘swallow’ and is a part of grabbing, pulling, trapping, locking and dislocating and is immediately followed by and mixed with ‘spitting’ – but without this process, how can you be light, agile, mobile and powerful?”

“It certainly puts sanchin into a completely different light…”

“That’s because sanchin is the ‘core’ of all movement, these ideas should permeate all martial technique to make them more effective.”

“But sanchin stance is hardly a mobile stance is it?”

“It is if you do it properly, take the stance…….. okay, now pump as we discussed and lift the back heel to spiral and drive a punch…”

“Yea! I floated and spat! – That’s cool!”

“And if you had used the energy to slide the feet, you would have moved very easily.”

“At last, someone’s made sense of ‘root’ ‘float’ ‘swallow’ ‘sink’ and ‘spit’..”

“Put it into the other training in sanchin kata and you’ve got a powerful learning tool..”

“You can see why it’s the core kata in many systems.”

“Yeah in both Chinese and Japanese…. Sanchin is a good method of training the ideas but not the only way.”

Steve Rowe

Number of posts : 34
Localisation : Chatham UK
Registration date : 2007-02-26

http://www.shikon.com

Back to top Go down

chi gung Empty Re: chi gung

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum