Working with arseholes

Once again I'm reminded of the lack of professional training amongst the American doormen, most of whom are college kids eager to pick up a few extra bucks, some girl's phone numbers and free drinks.

Friday night one of the guys that I worked with isn't physically big. (While size isn't always a necessity in that line of work it can definitely help when you may have to manhandle a drunk outside of the club and contend with getting them through a shoulder to shoulder crowd of revellers. )

Anyway, I digress. At one point a foursome walked up, two big guys who looked like off duty cops or military personnel, and their two girlfriends.

One of them spotted the register and girl we have out front to take the cover charge and said "Oh, you guys have a cover."

This jackass, who wasn't even standing where he was supposed to be replies "No mate, she's just sitting up there behind the register, in the cold, for the fun of it."

I hadn't heard what was said as I was focusing on some other guys (we'd had a potential shoot out inside the club the week before and I was expecting these clowns to come back again at which point I was going to stop them at the door) but picked up on the vibe from the customer who was saying "I'll be back later...we'll talk then" at which point the jackass replies "yeah yeah, whatever."

As he and they left I asked John, one of my students, what caused the guy to flare up which was when I learned what had been said. I nearly went and drop kicked the little turd myself.

Here's the problem as I see it.

#1 I have enough problems on my hands as it is without deliberately provoking more.

#2 Would the little weasel involved had said what he did if he'd been out there on his own - without John and I standing right behind him? (I doubt it)

#3 If he'd said that to me, I'd have dropped him

#4 Sympathizing thus with the customer and not with the bouncer who am I supposed to hit if they get into a fight over it? I'm on the side of the guy who got lipped off to, not my "colleague."

#5 Now the guy is telling everyone he meets and knows for the next three months that the "bouncers" at the club where I work are a pack of arseholes. (Because they never single out "one of the bouncers" it's just "the bouncers")

#6 If a fight had broken out between them and they were cops in all likelihood a court case would have ensued. How am I supposed to win that one when it comes out in trial what started the fight?

Spare me the amateurs and wannabes in this line of work please. It's a public relations job more than it is anything else. If I can get clients on my side early by having a laugh with them and being nice on the way in, then they're on my side in any subsequent fisticuffs later on because they remember me as the nice guy, not the smart mouthed arsehole.

All I can hope is that dickhead runs into the guy one night when he's out on his own, or he tries that shite when we're not around to get to him quick enough to save his scrawny neck.

Nick

Good point,Nick.
My brother worked as a bouncer for a short time and had a "workmate" that was an a**hole (stopping people at the door for no reason at all,just 'cause he liked his girlfriend).
One day in downtown a small,slim guy saw him an knocked him out hiting him with a bikers helmet.
Instant karma for the big fat a**.

Similar thing happened to me many years ago at a venue in Sydney. Asked by management to approach small group of bikers standing near fire exit inside where a rock concert was being held (Dr. Hook if I recall).
Everything going fine until until a 6 foot plus baby faced 19 year old "bouncer" starts to give them lip and then promptly jumps behind yours faithfully.
The bikers could see what a dickhead I had to deal with and there was no problem..........at that stage. But what if?????
Junior got the job because of his late father's celebrity status in the entertainment scene at the time (early 80's).
To quote you Nick......"spare me the amateurs!"

This is the problem that good Door supervisors will always face - the bad one's purposefully winding people up purely to feed their own egos. Then everyone gets tarred with the same brush.

Yep. Been there, seen that one a few times myself. I've never been the biggest, most intimidating guy, so I reasoned that I'd have to stop violence before it started in another way than physical presence, namely mental presence. I hear a lot of doormen talking about how many 'fights' they've had on the doors. For me it was how many 'fights' I didn't have. If you apply a little bit of intelligence, coupled with some life experience - and practice it - it's possible to out-wit and verbally out-maneouvre any punter with a few beers inside him (obvious exceptions not withstanding of course).

Alas, Nick, I think it's the modern tendency over here to employ kids with no real experience of people or life, because the formal qualification is now pretty much something any college kid can get.

Saw an 'eviction' from a bar just a couple of weeks ago. Everything wrong. Manner of talking to customer was inflammatory. Stood square in front of him... No wonder it went physical.

On the point about getting yourself involved when someone else is an arse - well, I think there's an important distinction between loyalty and blind obedience. Yes, you've got to be loyal to your colleagues (or to anyone you share a special relationship with), but this has limits. These limits don't extend to blind obedience in the face of a manifest injustice.

I did quite a bit of doorwork, and progressed right up the ladder to being the area manager for a national company with many hundreds of doormen on my books.

I was out on a door somewhere across the UK at least 5 nights a week and came across all shapes and sizes - both physically and mentally!

Never failed to amaze me how some of them couldn't help but give themselves more work to do, either by winding up the customers for what seemed like the sole purpose of massaging their own egos, or by allowing problems to develop through lack of awareness and observation.

Not all, by any stretch of the imagination, but enough to earn us all a bad reputation.

Mick

I know a few of the lads I kow who work on doors have left the job because the youngsters that are comming on now aren't dependable.

I recall once in my very very limited door career a young girl was on a dorr with me. I knew the other two lads on the door and asked who she was. They replied that they had no idea as she hadn't said a word to them all night (I arrived an hour after them)

She managed to tell me she thought one of the other lads was 'cock' for reasons I could be bothered to remember. Fucked up the queue to the point where she was put inside the door 'Because she was usless' verbatim quote from the head doorman. Shouted at me when I ran in to help with a ocurance (someone was taking drugs in the bogs, it only requited two but I ran in becaues I was sick of her acting like a fucking expert and I didn't trust her word) Shouted over me at someone who was being funny outside (Ihad asked him politely to move on and he was being a cock) Help is all very wellin these situations but when a 5'4 woman shouts over you at someone you're trying o handle, I defy you not to be humiliated.

So yeah. Thank God nothing serious happened that night.

In hindsite though I never made a good bouncer. I was the only doorman in whitley bay who wore glasses. I tried to not wear them for about half an hour but it was usless. First time we ran in for a suspected fight I looked like Clark Kent ripping them of my face. I went the other way and tried to be nice to everyone (hence the cock outside thinking he could just get away with openly defying a resonable request from me) and the onyl fight hat happened I ran past it to the door to get help before I pitched in. I was the laugh stock at work for that one for months. And finally leaveing without getting paid because I found out who my employer was and I was unwilling to confront him for my wages being partial to my knee caps

AXE
Jagunco

Great post Nick. This has happened in Finland also in all areas of security. Bouncers and security officers change every 6 months cause allmost no-one is willing to pay for true professionals, cause they can get 3 rookies for the same price (And for the record, I most certainly don´t consider myself as one of the top professionals, I´m still somewhat of a rookie).

One particular incident was very funny (well it´s funny now, but it wasn´t back then): I was working in an event, and one new guy came with me to his first shift. The event hadn´t opened yet, so there was only staff and so on, so there most certainly wasn´t supposed to be any trouble (or thats what I thought). Little later I heard very loud yelling, and as I looked up, I saw that this new guy was yelling at someone "You fuckin asshole, you do as I say blaablaaablaa" so loud that everyone within 100 meters would hear him, and allmost started a fistfight. I don´t know what the reason was, and I don´t give a shit. He didn´t work in that place for long, but the last I heard he is still working as a security officer This is only one of the numerous incidents that has happened to me during the time that I´ve worked in security industry. It´s nice if you´re working with some wacko when it really hits the fan

The same guy in my first post just demonstrated his lack of courage (just as I predicted he would).

Last Sat we had 3 black guys refusing to pay their tab and/or leave. Eventually, after five minutes of arguing back and forth one of the barmen, and a student of mine, got challenged by the biggest one to come outside one on one.

He agreed and as he got to the door the guy turned to confront him. All the classic signs were there, the touching the face, the looking round, the balance shift, the shoulder drop and bladed stance etc. When it was apparent that the other guy was due to launch my guy web handed him at the same time he hit him with a knee. He followed up with a right cross and the actor was out like a light.

His mates were all hanging round outside threatening to come back with guns etc so the bike patrol cops hung round to make sure nothing happened.

Later, while the guys were tidying up, the guy who had been kayoed ran up to the weasel who'd gobbed off in my first post, and got nose to nose with him. The "big man" stood there with his hands by his sides and did sweet FA. Apparently the mouth wasn't the man he made himself out to be when push came to shove.

Nick

PS: We've got the clip on CCtv and I'm trying to figure out how to get it and post it so you guys can see it.

Would be cool to see.

I was a doorman once but now in aviation and airport security. When we did our training it was drilled into us that "Behaviour breeds behaviour"

In other words if you act confrontational/aggressive/smartarse towards someone else, the chances of them returning the favour are greatly increased. Works almost all of the time too.